Candace Nassar (00:00.588)
All right Courtney, well let’s have you introduce yourself to our listeners and tell us about your family and maybe about some of your travel experiences. I know you love to travel as a family.
Courtney DeFeo (00:09.993)
I do, I do. So my name is Courtney. I’m married to Ron and we have been married. Let me think about this. 22 years, something we lose track of. I think it’s 22 this year, but it seems like yesterday we met in Atlanta doing an internship for PR and that was right out of school. And then we have two teenage girls. So it went by super fast. I’ve got an 18 year old that would be going to college in the fall and I brainwashed her to go to Auburn. So she’s fourth generation. So.
Candace Nassar (00:22.808)
Mmm.
Candace Nassar (00:32.814)
Mm.
Courtney DeFeo (00:36.809)
That’s possible ladies, but she’s super excited. She actually feels it’s a God thing that she’s going and then I have an almost 16 year old that is a sophomore. So two girls. We have a girl dog. So it’s all about the girls over here, but we’re having fun and I think people scared me about the teen years and they’re not easy but they’re really sweet and just all the seasons have so much to offer.
Candace Nassar (00:57.038)
Thank you.
Courtney DeFeo (01:00.285)
That’s kind of me. My background is kind of funny. I went from marketing and PR and where I met Ron, then I moved into a great job at Chick-fil-A headquarters in Atlanta and worked on those cows and advertising. And so I think it’s unique wherever you’re listening, whatever stage of parenting you’re in to take what you’ve learned and then just bring it into the motherhood space. It’s really fun. And so I kind of took all those creative things and ended up staying home with my girls and I’ve written some books and podcasts and speak and all that. But it’s really an attempt of “Lord here I am. I want to honor you with my life and my time and my family.” And so it’s been fun to use my communication skills, but in a new way. I really want people to fall in love with Jesus and realize that it’s possible to kind of disciple your own family and have a little fun along the way because we get a little stressed out. We need to lighten up just a tad. So on the travel….
Candace Nassar (01:47.08)
Mmm. Good.
Courtney DeFeo (01:51.741)
People are going to throw me across the room when I say this, but we get free flights. My husband has a job at American Airlines and he kind of negotiated. If you’re gonna move far from the family, would it be okay if you had free flights? I’m kinda like, “Okay, I’ll pray about it.” So we’re still far from our whole family who’s in Atlanta, but we do fly for free. And so never did I think I would be taking my kids to Italy and London and all these places, but we get to go.
So in particular, you’d ask me which one we love. We love Italy probably the most. We could go there over and over again. Several reasons why people are friendly. If you just attempt a little bit of Italian they’re into it. The food is unbelievable. It is just the best food you’ve ever had in your life. And I think the pace is slow. It just brings your temperature down and our kids get a piece of what their history is. Their country is so old.
Candace Nassar (02:15.534)
Amazing.
Courtney DeFeo (02:42.96)
Strolling around and having a cappuccino and not rushing around like us Americans do. They get a great pace of life there. So that’s a little bit about me, Chick-fil-A, Italian, all the things.
Candace Nassar (02:53.694)
So great. So as we established, I am from Atlanta as well. And I was a loan officer at First Atlanta Bank in the early eighties. And the very first loan that I worked on was to Truett Cathy and Chick-fil-A. mm-hmm. Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (02:57.895)
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (03:06.952)
Wow! That is so cool. He was such an incredible man. That’s the founder if you don’t know folks and he’s since passed on but I have some pretty cool memories. One of those is being in Moo Force One which is the jet that they have as a company and going with him on a trip and I just thought to myself like he’s in his 80s, late 80s and I thought I probably will never get this chance again and so just so many fond memories of that company and they taught me a lot about marriage and family and values.
Candace Nassar (03:32.046)
Mmm.
Well, that’s what’s so great about them. They don’t back down and I love that. And I love that you use that to springboard into what you’re doing now. That’s really good. God is good. Well, so the other question that I wanna ask to get to know you a little bit is what we are about godly wisdom for moms, today’s mom. So what is the most valuable piece of godly wisdom that you ever got that has impacted you today?
Courtney DeFeo (03:44.038)
Yeah, it’s fun, really fun.
Courtney DeFeo (04:05.0)
It’s such a hard question. A really, really hard question. But I think I was debating between Deuteronomy 6:7 that my mentor gave me, which talks about, you know, walking along the road and impressing it on your children as you go. So that’s one. But the one I kind of decided to just hover on today is 1 Peter 4:8. That is love covers a multitude of sins. And so if you think about it, back in the day of my mom raising me. I have great parents and so both of them were great, but she didn’t have blogs or podcasts or books or anything helping her out. She had her church community. She had her Bible and she loved us really, really well and so if you’re a young mom, think about this. You’re gonna mess up. You’re not gonna do it right. You’re gonna have to go back and apologize but that verse basically says love like real genuine love for your kids covers so much of it and if you get that one thing right I think God honors that. So I just give you this one example-still at 48 I can go back to my home where my parents live, in a different place now, but I know when I walk in the door that I am loved and accepted for who I am. They delight in me and they want me there. I feel like I belong and there’s no sin too big that they would shove me out of the door pretty much (maybe there’s some legal thing, so they’d be like “Well, we’re not doing drugs.”), but for the most part there’s not a love too big that would shove me apart and they don’t love me for what I do or the likes I get or the podcast things. They just love me for being Court. And so I want that for my kids so bad. And so I think that’s a freeing verse on some levels. It’s like, “Yes, take them to church.” And “Yes, get them involved with all the things.” But at the end of the day, like a parent, focusing love on your kids can do more than you could ever imagine.
Candace Nassar (05:47.638)
So great and what a gift. What a gift, a generational impact. You had that kind of upbringing. I’m assuming you were raised in a Christian home. So yeah. And so I wasn’t. And so that’s what I tried to give my kids. And to hear you say, you know, that it’s passed down, I just think that’s so amazing. So, that is, that’s super powerful. And I love one of the things that I learned early on that’s related to….
Courtney DeFeo (05:56.604)
Yeah, sure it was. Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (06:06.48)
Yeah, it’s really special hoping to do the same for my girls. We’ll see.
Candace Nassar (06:17.06)
Apologize when I made a mistake and not try to cover it up or act like I’m perfect or all those things and just ask for forgiveness and that was also a way just to love them and cover them.
Courtney DeFeo (06:18.194)
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (06:24.509)
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (06:30.266)
Yeah, I’ve gotten really good at that. I have to apologize more than I’d like to over the years.
Candace Nassar (06:35.458)
Well, and with teenage girls, it seems, like I have one, I raised one daughter and two boys, and I definitely felt like with the daughter, it was a lot more common.
Courtney DeFeo (06:44.74)
Yeah, and I have, she got in trouble in third grade for, she talks too much on her, you know, progress report. Now it gets paid to speak. But I’m like, when you have girls, the words fly really, really quick and the emotions fly quick. And so I find myself in this season having to go back to them and say, “I should have prayed on that. And we’ll talk about it today, but I should have waited. I should have paused before I said that to you.” It just gets a little heated sometimes.
Candace Nassar (06:55.789)
Mm-hmm.
Candace Nassar (07:04.515)
Mm.
Candace Nassar (07:08.702)
Mm-hmm. Good, good advice. Good wisdom. So, okay, so Jesus commands us to love our enemies as we saw in the verse, and this is a really hard concept for even adults to grasp, much less children. So how about walking us through how you would explain that to a child?
Courtney DeFeo (07:10.942)
Ha ha ha.
Courtney DeFeo (07:20.157)
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (07:28.092)
Well….
My kids are probably like, that’s not how you said it does. But I’m so glad you asked me this question because I thought how would I explain that? And I think part of the way up front is to say this is how our family operates. And I think that’s really important because we’re doing biblical worldview versus, and we wouldn’t say that to a kid, but it’s like, the rest of the world are your neighbors or your baseball team members. They’re operating in the way that their family does it or the way the world wants it. But for us and our family, we follow Jesus. We believe the Bible is true. And so we want to live like Him.
Candace Nassar (07:55.234)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney DeFeo (07:58.745)
We want to live in a way that honors God and pleases him. So one of the ways that He asked us to do that is that we love our enemies. Okay, so who are enemies and I looked this up. I didn’t know but it’s basically in battle, they’re talking about enemies, but it’s also saying like the one who hates. That’s what the biblical enemy says, “The one who hates.” And so I thought about this. Sometimes we’re treating Auburn, Alabama or the rival team, (it isn’t like Al Qaeda). We’ve got to rein it in on what we’re calling enemies, but I guess, anyone you would be in disagreement with.
Candace Nassar (08:19.704)
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (08:28.688)
Kids could recognize those as enemies. So then I would say to my kids, you know, the natural thing would not be to love in our human form. We would want to get back and you know, pay them back with meanness or resent them or hold a grudge. But God is saying no, the biblical thing to do, what I would do, and He’s had plenty of stories for doing this, but love my enemies. That means pray for them. That means actually want the best for them. That means forgive them. So how do we do that in this situation? So that’s a little bit. I’m sure I didn’t say it that way to my kids.
Candace Nassar (08:55.364)
Mmm.
Courtney DeFeo (08:58.608)
But it’s a way you can unpack it for kids and adults to understand, I think.
Candace Nassar (09:03.0)
Yeah, I mean, I think kids would make enemies broader even than adults, right? Because anybody who they feel that antagonizes them maybe, or that just gives them, you know, bad feelings, disagrees with them, whatever, they might say, that person is their enemy. And, knowing that we are to love all people, right? Defining that, you know, to be on the lookout, I would think.
Courtney DeFeo (09:09.52)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (09:26.642)
Yeah.
Candace Nassar (09:31.912)
This is a person you might think of as an enemy, but this is what God says about that. So that definition is really important.
Courtney DeFeo (09:32.093)
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (09:37.0)
Yeah.
Well, and you think about it. They’re just going, “Well, they disagreed with me. Well, they’re different than me.” It was like, how do you know you’re right? And that was the one of the humbling things I had to tell my girls when they were little was to realize that my kid could have actually been the jerk in the equation. Like as a mom, you’re like, “Oh, I’m so sorry. They were mean to you today.” And then quickly you’re like, “What did you do? Quickly you think, “There’s another side to this story.” And that’s one of the things I think I got from Andy Stanley in Atlanta, but he talked about a piece of a pie and saying, even if 95 % of that was the other person you always….
Candace Nassar (09:42.435)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney DeFeo (10:09.154)
have a piece of the pie of like taking ownership of that and so I think that’s almost like “love your neighbors as yourself”. It’s constantly saying, “What would I do differently/” Just your own piece, just take ownership for your part, or saying, “Sorry.” I lost the thought, Candace. Just saying if you were the one to make a mistake, if you were hungry, if you were tired and you lashed out at that kid, how would you want them to respond? Would you want them to forgive you? And so, I think it’s less lectures and just turning the tables, asking good questions and making them think about it from just a little bit of a different angle.
Candace Nassar (10:34.177)
Mm-hmm.
Candace Nassar (10:43.522)
Yeah, that’s really good. And, you know, that just leads me into talking about conflict resolution really, because I think that, you know, we have to model for our kids all of these things, right? And I think conflict resolution, when we understand that we all have a way of handling conflict, and there’s a lot of times when we get all worked up and emotionally dysregulated and…
Courtney DeFeo (10:54.812)
Yeah.
Candace Nassar (11:09.934)
And we want to do the same. We want to do that with our kids and when they’re hurt and whatnot and just, and just teaching us to, you know, calm down, maybe take that humility of what’s, what’s my part in this, even if it’s small. Get curious. That’s what I was thinking about when you were talking-getting curious about asking those questions. Can you help me understand what you said? Something, something like that, you know, and listen to understand.
Courtney DeFeo (11:18.92)
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (11:33.786)
Right.
Candace Nassar (11:37.8)
Showing that to our kids. Have you seen that happen with your kids?
Courtney DeFeo (11:44.145)
Yes, for sure.
One of the things that came to mind was Lisa Turkhuerst, a friend of mine. That’s why I can’t take credit for this. It was so good She says, “Is it a mistake or a pattern?” I have probably quoted that 55 times on my podcast this year and with my own kids because we’re quick to write off someone that made a mistake. But is this a pattern? And I think we’re get into bullying. But if this is like “Hey, if this is who this girl’s been to me for six years for two school grades that’s something, but if they made a mistake and you look over and go, “Well, they just lost their grandfather or they didn’t make the choice team.” Like we have a little grace for that understanding, but I also want to remind folks, and I’m sure you’ve talked about this on MomQ, but as they age, the conflict, and how you handle it is different. So if they’re really little, we’re modeling it. We’re going in the room with them and their sister and saying, “Hey I know you’re fighting over the same toy. How can we work that out?” And then that rope we start to let out and let out and let out and if it’s a really bad situation, I’m still going to the teacher saying, “Can you give me perspective on this? Is it so bad that they need to split apart?” And then we do less and less and we’re coaching.
And so then in middle school, high school, we’re going, “What do you think? What would you do? What do you think you should say?” And if they ask for our opinion, then we give it. But at some level, they’ve got to be the one that walks in and handles conflict. Now we can give them ideas. They can come back to us. They might do it differently. And we’re like, “All right, what did you learn from marching up to that person in the middle of lunch and cornering them?” It’s probably not the right way or type. So this is easier said than done. But I do want to say to the parent whose kids are in conflict, this is really painful. It’s really, really painful, especially if you think your kids are getting picked on. It’s painful to watch and it’s painful to walk through it because you’re trying to be tough, but then you want to close the door and cry and say like why are they doing this to my child. So the whole thing is painful. The whole thing is complicated and hopefully we’re just kind of scratching the surface today of just a little bit of unique ways to think about it.
Candace Nassar (13:32.26)
Mm-hmm. And one key aspect is even in the verse that we started off with is just praying. Praying for the person, praying maybe before you respond, praying with your kids over, especially if it’s a repeated conflict. I just love, I mean, I’ve definitely seen in my life and in my kids’ life when they’re praying for someone, it changes their heart for that person.
Courtney DeFeo (13:38.374)
Yes.
Courtney DeFeo (13:42.715)
Yes.
Courtney DeFeo (13:48.785)
I love that.
Courtney DeFeo (13:54.257)
Yes, it does. I’m glad you said that because I think I’m one.
You want to call me a helicopter mom like I’ve gotten better but over the years my quick defense is to pounce and jump in and I’ve had to train myself to go just wait, 24 hours don’t respond in the heat of the emotions even let your kids get a little snack and a little sleep it’s amazing what sleep and snack does for all of us to be like,” I’m not so upset about that like I was furious but I was actually hungry.” So just the longer you can wait and say let’s wait to address that and kind of watch and see how this plays out, versus like firing off the email because that momma
bear is where I’m the worst about just letting the coach have it or something when I’m like that was so not biblical or wise. Like it didn’t help the situation to pounce in like that.
Candace Nassar (14:39.745)
You know, and I was a high school teacher for 10 years. So I can tell you that I’ve been on the other end of some of those emails, not that you would ever write the ones that I received, but you know, some of them, I mean, there’s always two sides. And I think that’s a good thing to teach our kids is that, there, you know, we have to like go back and say, take ownership. What is the 5%, whatever it is that my part is in this.
Courtney DeFeo (14:42.204)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney DeFeo (14:48.624)
Yeah, yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (14:53.263)
Absolutely.
Courtney DeFeo (15:03.58)
Yeah.
You know, a friend of mine had dinner with me the other night. She was a high school teacher and she ended up resigning. No, no, no. She’s elementary. I said, “Why did you resign?” And she said, “The parents.” And I said, “That is horrible.” And she said, “You wouldn’t believe the amount of teachers that are leaving.” I said, “What are we doing?” And she said, “They really believe their kid could do no wrong. Like if they get a B minus, it is the teacher’s fault, not the kids’ fault for forgetting to turn in the homework.” And I thought we need to have like a circle, the wagon parent meeting and be like, “Yes, the teachers don’t always get it…
Candace Nassar (15:23.939)
Exactly.
Courtney DeFeo (15:35.748)
but we can’t always assume our kids are right, like that is a dangerous pattern and that coaches are quitting and teachers are quitting because we’re too hard. That’s awful.
Candace Nassar (15:43.812)
And what it teaches the kids is that they, they don’t have to take that accountability and they can always pass it off on somebody else. And that is, that is not love. You know, our love is that humility of saying, “You know, not making ourselves less, but just thinking of ourselves less.” Right. And so it’s, it’s an issue. So, well, let’s talk a little bit about bullying because that’s a whole other level of conflict.
Courtney DeFeo (15:54.225)
Mm-mm.
Courtney DeFeo (16:04.688)
Yeah, yeah, yes.
Candace Nassar (16:13.312)
So how can we validate our kids in a bullying situation, but also teach them grace and mercy towards others?
Courtney DeFeo (16:21.16)
Oh, this is so hard. I even called my school one time and said,
Is this worse for Christian kids because we’re raising them to be kind? We say just be kind to be kind, but they’re not learning to stand up for themselves. And that’s a really tricky line. And I’m glad you brought up prayer because that’s what we have to do as parents. I’m so fired up about this because the perspective I’m getting is that it’s really bad and we’ve been kind and we’ve turned the other cheek and we’ve done it the way Jesus would do it. But at some level, I mean, people always show us like Jesus turned over tables. He got angry at injustice. So I think there’s times when it keeps happening. It’s not a mistake. It’s a pattern.
Your kids are different. They’re closing up. They don’t want to go to school. There’s some physical symptoms too. I think that’s the point when you go to the school or the other parent and say, “Can we talk about what’s going on? Help me understand.” And it’s not in an accusatory way. It’s more like I want to understand how to help my child or guide them through this. But I do think there’s a place, as it goes on, to walk in and give them power to not just punch someone but just say, That doesn’t make me feel very good.” Or, “I’m going to play with someone else.” And it’s really tricky stuff.
I will tell you my daughter had an incident a couple years ago and it was probably one of the worst kind of Mean Girl moments and I don’t know the whole story but I know that she was really quick to forgive and I wasn’t. I’m still kind of mad about it. Like it was so below the belt that I just have not been great about it and the other day she was like, “Mom, I’ve been over it for like two years and forgiven her. I need you to forgive her too.” And I was like “What kind of maturity is coming out of this 15 year old?” But I think it’s hard.
Candace Nassar (17:49.156)
you
Courtney DeFeo (17:55.003)
She’s my one, and that was one thing I want to tell y’all too. Look at the personalities of your kids. So that one is going to have a huge heart, easily forgives, loves everyone and might get run over a little bit. The other one is more like right and wrong, black and white. So I’ll have to let this one go like, “Hey, make sure you have boundaries. Don’t let them do that to you again and again.” Again, this one on this side, it’s like, “Hey, you can forgive. You can enter back in.” And so I think look at that too. Look at the way God wired your kids and kind of pray on how you can help coach them to say, “Hey, your strength is your heart. Your weakness or your downside may be the lack of boundaries, healthy boundaries. Not to say I’ll never look at you again or I never talk to you again, but you’re not in my core inner circle if that makes sense. That’s 35 ideas for you. Good luck.”
Candace Nassar (18:39.716)
You know, that’s really good. It is important to, and all disciplining of our children and coaching and discipling them is, they’re all so unique. God made them all so different. So I really like that. And I was reading how we can help our kids, if we can resist the urge to jump in and fix it, we want to build our kids’ confidence and their identity by letting them handle it.
Courtney DeFeo (18:49.34)
Yeah. Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (19:00.209)
Mm-hmm.
Candace Nassar (19:06.324)
it’s a lot of, so there’s gonna be a lot of conversation, right? And, hopefully, and sometimes, I mean, bullying is real. I had it happen to one of mine and it was, it was bad, and I had to go to the school and they really didn’t do anything. And ultimately it was a private Christian school and ultimately I had to take her out of the school. That’s how dramatic it went for us. But there’s a lot of situations where we might think they’re being bullied and our kids maybe could….
Courtney DeFeo (19:07.688)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (19:16.028)
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (19:26.022)
Wow, yeah, yeah.
Candace Nassar (19:36.26)
possibly handle it themselves if we allow it, right? And give them that opportunity, rather than just reminding them constantly of who they are and whose they are, right? Whose they are that no one else can define or tear them down if they are a child of God, that He is the standard and He is the one who gives them the value. And just keep bringing that back up, I think, and helping them so that they can say to that bully,
Courtney DeFeo (19:37.69)
Yeah, yeah. That’s right.
Courtney DeFeo (19:47.58)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney DeFeo (19:54.94)
That’s right.
Courtney DeFeo (20:05.852)
Yeah.
Candace Nassar (20:06.392)
“You know, that’s not appropriate and you can’t treat me that way.” Or even just totally cutting it off and not even reacting. And kind of just taking the emotion out of it because we know that that’s a lot of what they’re looking for is a reaction.
Courtney DeFeo (20:15.612)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Exactly. One of the ways I’ve seen both of my girls grow is, and if you’ve got teenagers, you know, around like, I wrote a mother-daughter study called “Treasured” that we did when they were nine to twelve-ish and they were really still into me. They’re like, “Mom’s wise and let’s all do crafts together.” Then, right around 13 they’re like, “I don’t want to do anything.” I mean, they still want to hang out with me, but they’re certainly not going to process their feelings as much at that point. So I’ve always tried to dial in mentors and coaches and teachers into their life that can say the things I want to say to them about “You are made in God’s image and don’t believe those lies. This is who you are. You are not rude. You are kind.” and they’ve been able to say that to them in a way it’s almost like your favorite, you know, cheer coach or baseball coach says something and you’re like you think that you know. You think that, and they just perk up and so God has done that. I’ve actually prayed for that.
Candace Nassar (20:47.812)
Mmm.
Courtney DeFeo (21:08.97)
I’ve said, “Go talk to Mrs. Black when you’re in school today and ask her what she would do with that conflict, or go to your small group teacher on Wednesday and just ask them.” And so they’re soaking up this wisdom from other godly people that aren’t as annoying as their mom. That’s like what takes a village, right?
Candace Nassar (21:25.928)
Mm, mm. That’s so good. And also I was thinking about when they’re young and they don’t have the confidence yet, maybe even just role playing with them. This is something that you can say when you go back and try to stand. You know, we don’t want them to go back and punch them in the face, but we want them to be able to stand up in a way that…
Courtney DeFeo (21:42.449)
Yes.
Courtney DeFeo (21:47.922)
Right.
Candace Nassar (21:52.5)
loves that person and speaking the truth maybe in love too. I thought that was a good idea. So, let’s talk a little bit more about some of the boundaries that we want to teach our kids. And, you were talking about this earlier, “Is this a pattern or a mistake?” So let’s kind of go into that a little bit more because I think that is super valuable.
Courtney DeFeo (21:55.805)
Yes. Yes, that’s great. Yeah, absolutely.
Courtney DeFeo (22:04.134)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney DeFeo (22:10.94)
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (22:16.028)
Yeah. If you think about my own kids, They have not been nice. They have excluded someone. They have been quiet. They have been rude. And so as I grow, I see my kids can be a jerk too. So it’s like, “What would I want people to do with them if they made some mistakes or even a season of mistakes?” But if there’s a pattern of the way someone is treating you from kindergarten all the way through sixth grade, it’s like we’re gonna need some distance there and that’s hard because in this I only know girls, but I think even for birthday parties. It’s like, “Well you didn’t invite so-and-so.”It’s like, “Well, they’re not really my, you know, inside people.” So this is really tricky stuff and I think for my kids one of the indicators is how they are behaving. How I see their emotional state when they come home from school. I like to have the kids in my car carpool home and I observe. I can tell who helps them become the best version of them and when they shrink down and are trying to impress and they leave and they don’t feel great about themselves like all those are….
Candace Nassar (23:04.93)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (23:15.932)
really good indicators that that is not a great relationship. And as I keep quoting Andy, but he was my pastor, but he would say, Aidy Stanley would say, “Dial in great influences and dial out, you know, bad influences.” And that’s it for me. We need a Christian circle that’s perfect. We want people that are challenging around us. I kind of would call my girls to it and say, “How does that person make you feel?” Or, I knew, and I would say, “Hey, let’s go get Riley today. Cause she always brings out the fun in you.” And so I kind of just walked, watched that. And then they started making those decisions themselves as they grew to kind of figure out who they were going to walk with-the wise. And be around people that kind of call you to Jesus and point you closer to Jesus versus like cut you down all the time.
Candace Nassar (23:56.632)
What would, have you ever had it where a parent asked you why suddenly the relationship has grown colder or distant?
Courtney DeFeo (24:04.012)
No, because I think I’m pretty good about doing it slowly. I mean, I think the way we would say it in Dallas, in the most “bless your heart” kind of way, was like, “They’re just, you know, in a different circle this year.” Or, “She’s kind of finding ways to make friends and learning.” you know, which is all true. It is all true. I think my oldest one found her crew freshman year and I just thought that’s the way it goes. Well, it took Larson a little bit longer, but I think older parents and parents have been through it enough to know that they do that. They kind of bounce in and out of friend groups. They typically don’t have a person or three people for years and years and years and that can be hard to swallow and watch because you’re like, “Man, I like that girl and I liked her mom but now she’s not at my house anymore.” So the answer is no. I have not had anyone directly, but they probably wondered and I would be honest if they asked me I think in the nicest way.
Candace Nassar (24:35.306)
Mm-hmm.
Candace Nassar (24:50.404)
Yeah, I just was thinking about how that would be a tricky situation and how we could handle that. But I do think that we can help our kids understand how to as they get older speak the truth and love. And that’s something I really just keep harping on because I don’t want us to turn our back on someone and you know, just cut them off.
Courtney DeFeo (25:07.868)
Mm-hmm.
Courtney DeFeo (25:18.652)
Yeah.
Candace Nassar (25:19.734)
You know, that’s not necessarily a good witness either.
Courtney DeFeo (25:23.132)
Well, and I think one of the words I would use is trust. Like, and even with us adults, it is like over time. Do you trust that person? Because a lot of the hurt comes from a distrust or in a relationship, whether they’re tattling on you or they’re gossiping about you or they take something you share from your heart and then they spread it through the school. And so I think I’d start with “Treasured”. We talked about being the friend you want to find and just say, if you can’t control other people, but you can be a loyal friend, you can be a trustworthy friend.
Candace Nassar (25:47.224)
Mmm.
Courtney DeFeo (25:53.019)
You’ll start attracting similar kinds of people. But I agree with you. I think there’s people that are in our lives that we’re just not going to shake loose. That’s not a biblical thing. But I do think you can give different access and say like these are the people I’m sharing my life with and my heart with and they’re trustworthy over time. And these are the people I’m going to be kind to and invite them to church and be around them and loving, but not just have that access to the most sacred parts of our hearts. I think this is the way I would say it.
Candace Nassar (26:16.484)
Yes, yes, yes. And going back to that prayer- being a prayer warrior for that person. Very good. Well, so is there anything else that you would say to encourage moms in this very difficult task of helping our kids learn to love their enemies? You know, I’m thinking about maybe how we can work on ourselves even so we can model it more.
Courtney DeFeo (26:21.478)
Yeah, yes, yes.
Courtney DeFeo (26:40.644)
Agreed. Agreed. I think that that would be the number one thing I would say.
My first book I talked about not lecturing as much. Actually enjoying being a follower of Jesus. And so I think one of the things you can do is ask questions and say, “Hey guys, I have this little friend situation going on. I want to tell you about it, but I really want your input. Like what would you do with this situation?” So it’s like reverse teaching. They’re thinking about you and not them. And they’re like, “Man, mom, you should just call her or you should not be her friend because that was rude.” You know, so I think we talk through it and model it for sure. And definitely taking ownership when you didn’t do it well.
To say, “Hey guys remember that thing that went on I was really nasty and I really shouldn’t have cut her off.” Or, “You know, I should have asked for forgiveness.” And kind of just owning your own sinful brokenness is helpful to them because in our eyes we’re like, “Mom has a parenting podcast.” It’s like, “No I actually don’t know what I’m doing.” I don’t get it tricked out that I think I’m that awesome. So, I think they pick up, you know. More is caught than taught. They pick up things that we’re living out truly in our homes, and even our own reaction to. And I’m terrible at that. Like if they get in their heart in the car, it is so hard not to overreact emotionally. And so, you know, just like praying on it, like you said, taking a minute and being like, “All right, that must feel really bad. That seems like that was really hurtful.” And not immediately go into a sermon right there. Kind of recognize the pain and then circle back with them maybe at a less emotional moment.
Candace Nassar (27:56.235)
Absolutely.
Candace Nassar (28:09.837)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And, I listened to a couple of your podcasts on “Pardon the Mess” and you were talking about just that. It just reminds me even right now that we’re in a political season where people are labeled enemies that we don’t even know. Right? And we just have to watch how we talk about things like that in front of our kids. And you know, I personally think that we can….
Courtney DeFeo (28:23.622)
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (28:28.626)
Yep, yep, yep.
Courtney DeFeo (28:34.47)
Mm-hmm.
Candace Nassar (28:40.065)
Disagree, and agree to disagree with people and that’s okay. That’s really, that’s what God wants is we can have discussions, civil discourse, right? And listen to each other and it’s just learning. Again, it’s a conflict. Know and handling conflict well. It’s just learning to listen to people and of different opinions.
Courtney DeFeo (28:44.154)
Yep, that’s right. That’s right.
Courtney DeFeo (28:50.725)
Yeah.
Courtney DeFeo (29:01.754)
Yeah, yeah, you may be going too long so we can cut this. But one of the things I was thinking about as I was preparing for this was a lot of the conflict our kids will see will be in our families. And there’s some people that don’t talk to their parents anymore and it’s for good reason. It was super unhealthy. You know, toxic would be a word really, like abusive. And so there’s really a lot of families walking out there that’s like not for the health of our family and our safety. Even we had to detach from that. But then there’s a lot of families that go in and I was like, “You’re my parents, but we are disagreeing on politics.” We are disagreeing on the way we parent and watching you navigate that I think says so much to them because those are the people they know the best. They know your Sister, they know your mom and dad, and so I think don’t be sad about that. But use that as an opportunity to say, “Hey, this is hard.” If it’s hard at school, It’s hard in a family to go like, “Lord, guide us.” When do I forgive something that’s so hurtful? Where are the boundaries? How do I do this? Well, because I want to protect my kids, but I don’t want to live in resentment
I don’t want to break off an entire generation that birthed me because I’m resentful, you know, so it’s really tricky stuff. So I think just encouraging those that are in some family drama is like it’s not easy, but it’s worth kind of the fight to show your kids like, “Hey, we got this wrong.” Or, “Hey, this is why we’re making this decision and we’re going to pray on the next steps.”
Candace Nassar (30:19.068)
Mm-hmm, that’s great, that’s great. Well, this has been a great conversation, Courtney. I thank you so much for sharing your heart and sharing about some of the things that have happened in your life. And I really enjoyed getting to know you and hearing about your family and you’re just a lot of fun. Yeah, so how can we find out more about you?
Courtney DeFeo (30:36.232)
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Courtney DeFeo (30:41.618)
Currently, I’m always doing new and unique things, but currently I’m at “Part of the Mess”. podcast as a podcast host and we do very similar things like this. Just parents that want to have a home full of faith and how you do that. So “Part of the Mess” podcast or I’m over on Instagram @Courtney DeFeo.
Candace Nassar (30:56.408)
Great, we’ll put it in our show notes and I wish you the best. Thanks so much. All right.
Courtney DeFeo (30:59.932)
Thanks for having me.
Candace Nassar (31:03.682)
Yes.