[00:00:00.770] – Candace Nassar

Well, welcome, everyone. Today, I have with me licensed professional counselor Lindsay Werner. Lindsay is a relational health and emotional health advocate that loves helping people live life more joyfully and thrive in healthy relationships. She’s one of our favorite MomQ guest speakers, and you can find her talks on our podcast episodes number 36 and 42. She’s been in private practice for 13 years, and you are going to love her incredible insight and passion for healthy relationships. So welcome Lindsay.

[00:00:35.680] – Lindsey Werner

Thank you. It’s so great to be with you this morning.

[00:00:38.980] – Candace Nassar

Thank you so much, Lindsay. I’m so excited about what we’re going to talk about. So just as a little intro, tell us about you and your family so we can know you’ve been in private practice for 13 years.  How long have you been married?

[00:00:55.110] – Lindsey Werner

I’ve been married for nine years to my husband, Alex, And we have two awesome kiddos, a seven-year-old girl and a four-year-old boy.

[00:01:06.070] – Candace Nassar

Okay. So you’re in the thick of it. You’re one of our moms.

[00:01:09.070] – Lindsey Werner

We are definitely in the thick of it getting encouragement from these podcasts as much as hopefully everyone else is.

[00:01:18.340] – Candace Nassar

Well, and I have to say, it always encourages me as well. So I just love what the Lord is doing through this. So last time on the podcast, it’s Mental Health Month in May, and you’re a licensed professional counselor, which is why I wanted to have you on, and I’m so thankful to you. Last episode, Annie and I talked about mental health more from an angle of the mom and how to recognize, and we talked a little bit about recognizing it in your children, but we talked a lot about our own experience with mental health struggles and how to be aware of that and what to do about that. I introduced it by saying that we’re in a mental health crisis in this country just because the statistics are alarming about how many people are struggling with this issue. What would you have to say about that? Do you feel like it’s a crisis?

[00:02:16.880] – Lindsey Werner

I think that realities are helpful. I think facts are helpful to understand what the gravity of a situation is. I get a little concerned for our moms and our kids out there when we hear things like that. It’s a bit overwhelming, and it’s hard to navigate that anxiety. And so I would say the most common thing that we have with one another is actually that we get anxious. We all have a fight-flight response center. We all have a struggle being who we want to be, who God’s called us to be, in any situation of a moment. Because of that social anxiety or because of different things going on, I think the degree of intensity varies very differently, and what sensitivities we have to different things varies very uniquely across every human being I’ve ever met. So, when I’m about mental health, when it comes to families, the best way I’ve come about it is to just put this phrase, “No blame. No shame.” “No blame. No shame. But I feel blank.” And It normalizes the fact that we all sincerely have an amygdala, which is a flight-flight response center in the back of your brain.

[00:03:37.590] – Lindsey Werner

We all have that. It all gets activated. But the degree of intensity is just a little bit different across the people.

[00:03:46.120] – Candace Nassar

That’s good. We’re just trying to make people aware that this is something that’s affecting all ages of people, not just adults, but kids as well. And Annie and I talked a little bit about some of the causes of mental health issues with kids. I was reading an article this morning, actually, that was talking about how our overprotective, overscheduled culture with our children is part of what’s causing some of the increases in anxiety. Do you agree with that?

[00:04:23.220] – Lindsey Werner

Yeah. I would just change one word if I could. Sure. I think this one change really pulls that “No blame. No shame” effect back into place. You said the word cause. Those two things, whatever the two things might be, in this case, we’re talking about over-scheduling and over-responsibility on the parents’ side. That causes anxiety. If I could just shift that word to “contribute towards”, that might help just our emotional self settle into this topic because you could be unknowingly contributing to some anxiety in your kid’s life. Yes, absolutely. I’m probably doing the same thing. I’m guaranteeing I do the same thing, right? But if I look at myself and I go, “I am causing anxiety in my children,” it is debilitating and freaking me out. And I have no idea what in the world to do with that. That’s a great point. Because my child also has a contribution. They have resiliency. They have emotions to regulate. They have thoughts to process. And it’s almost taking all the responsibility away from them if I say I caused these things in my children. But I do “contribute towards” that. So I want to honor the fact that God has made us relationally and relationships have a beautiful impact on other people, and they also can have some negative impact.

[00:05:54.980] – Lindsey Werner

So that’s how I would start that. It’s to say, yes, of course, there’s things that we do that contribute to some negative or some negative environments or some interactions that aren’t the best.

[00:06:06.780] – Candace Nassar

That’s good. So I think, yeah, just talking about those factors. I love that. I love how you reframe that, and that helps me. So as we’re talking about the factors that contribute. One of the factors we know is technology, and Annie and I spoke a lot about that. And then also this whole idea of kids needing time to have their own conflicts and work through things themselves and have that free play to where they can process and have that creative thinking, and that we are reluctant to give them that time because of fear on our parts and just what’s in the news all the time. And that we think we’re being good parents to protect our kids from all things that are hurtful or harmful to them. But that’s not really beneficial. What would you say to that?

[00:07:05.260] – Lindsey Werner

Yeah, I think that’s really good. I actually watched a little, I don’t know, TikTok video. Our TikTok therapists are out there, too. But there was this little video that was about how we are in a culture as parents where we have never validated feelings more than we validated feelings, and we’ve never let feelings have a space more than we’ve ever had a space. But she had such a great point. She said, But there’s more to parenting than just validating. There’s cultivating resilience, and there’s cultivating responsibility, and there’s cultivating all these other things. And I think when we get overwhelmed with the anxiety part of things, we just want to take the pain or the discomfort away. And so we might just validate towards something, or we might just try to fix something for our kids so that they don’t have to deal with the intensity of those feelings. But when we do that, we are taking the opportunity away from them to become resilient. And we’re taking that opportunity away for them to grow these little spurts of joy and character and resiliency when they have to face hard things. But it is really tough to watch your kid face hard things.

[00:08:27.700] – Lindsey Werner

I mean, it’s hard for me to want to face hard things, and I’m an adult. But it is very hard for me to watch my kids face hard things and to just play the role of being with them versus fixing it. That, I think, is the crux of the issue that we struggle with.

[00:08:44.980] – Candace Nassar

Absolutely. I mean, as moms, we want to control so much. I mean, we do have so much responsibility in our homes, and we can be in control of so many things, but we have to let those reins go to a degree and allow our kids to mature on their own and develop those skills. We’re talking about relationships and just mental health and relationships and those skills of being grounded in their own ability to handle problems and crises, that is critical to healthy development, right?

[00:09:24.860] – Lindsey Werner

Absolutely. I think a lot of it goes back to not necessarily what we’re doing with our kids, but the how we’re doing it. So if I’m coming alongside my kid, and in my mind, I’m supporting them, I’m trying to comfort them, or I’m trying to help guide them through a situation, Because I do not expect my four-year-old to know how to navigate, I don’t know, any high conflict situation or he doesn’t know how to regulate himself. That’s not something we inherently understand how to do. And so, there are parts of my role, as his mom,  to come alongside him and to teach and equip him in these different moments. He may not hear it the best, and he may not be able to digest it to the fullest degree at that particular moment. But having that perspective is such a huge shift about the energy, because the energy that makes something over-functioning, as I would call it, is when we take over responsibility for a situation. We’re doing too much in the moment. The intent behind that is our discomfort is overriding what we know to be good and valuable for the moment.

[00:10:43.350] – Lindsey Werner

So for example, if my son is having an emotional moment, this happened about 15 times yesterday because he and his sister were going after each other. I don’t know. It’s just one of those days. In my window of tolerance, I would call it my tolerance level for their bickering had gone like I was so done with the bickering, right? And so my ability to come alongside him in the most productive way was not very good at one particular point in the day. I remember going, “Lindsay, you need to breathe. You need to walk away. You’re not helpful right now.” I was so frustrated and over-stimulated myself by the situation, and nothing terrible was happening. There are a four-year-old and a seven-year-old being normal four and seven-year-olds doing normal four and seven-year-old things, which includes sibling fights and bickering. But my own reaction to that anxiety made me, or not made me, but I had the choice to engage with it from an anxious place and just start rubbing and fixing and yelling and shouting and screaming and telling them they’re all in time out. We’re all in time-out until the day is done.

[00:11:57.640] – Lindsey Werner

Mom’s in time out, too. I’m just going to time-out. Or I could go, “Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Take a second, take a second, take a second.” And calm myself down before I even started trying to come alongside my kids. And when I can do that, It does not fix the situation, friends. It’s not like, oh, that magically solved their problem. But it gave me a totally different resource system to work from as a parent as I recognize, you know what? You, my child, are having a hard time getting along with your sister. I have a great time getting along with your sister. I figured this out. I know how to do this, but this is your challenge, something you’re working through, and I’m going to support and help you through that. But when we get in those anxious moments, we do not breathe. Actually, we don’t really think very well because our fight-flight system takes over, and we just start reacting and trying to dispense whatever, or dispel, or eradicate whatever anxiety is right in front of us. And it’s really not our best self coming out.

[00:13:07.830] – Candace Nassar

That’s really good. So, yeah, as I think about that, you made me think about how we can be grounded in our own mental health as we’re talking about mental health. And you’re talking about something really important. You’re breaking away, and you’re breathing, and you’re realizing that you are their mother to guide them, but your identity is not in who they become. And I think that’s something we struggle with as moms. It’s like we think we go all the way to the end of, okay, my kids aren’t getting along. My kids aren’t behaving. My kids aren’t doing the things that I want them to do. So I’m going to tighten the screws, and I’m going to try harder. And instead of realizing that they’re created, they belong to God, and that He has a plan and a purpose for them, and He has a plan and a purpose for me. And He can help me through all these things if I allow Him into the picture. And I think by stepping back when you’re in those moments, that’s such a part of what we can do, right? Instead of reacting to, step back, to breathe, to say, “Okay, God, what can I do differently in this situation?”

[00:14:20.770] – Candace Nassar

“And how can I model to them emotional regulation and good control of my emotions?” So let’s talk a little bit about that as to how we can do a better job with that, because moms, we have so much struggle with our identity being tied up in our kids.

[00:14:41.400] – Lindsey Werner

Yes. It’s like their behavior, somehow  becomes the poster board for if I’m a good parent or not. Yes. And it’s the only thing that we’re looking at. And what a heavy burden that is for our kids, that whatever they do, either signals to us that they’re good, or they’re not. That’s a heavy burden that we unintentionally, in this situation, are putting on them, although it’s coming from a very, very beautiful, heartfelt desire to do it right. There is no mom listening in here today that’s going, “Hey, I wish I could fail at parenting a lot today. I don’t even care about parenting today.” It is like one of your highest values. It’s like you are so into it that you would… I did this last night. I was watching a show with my husband, and instead of literally watching, I was looking up self-regulation tips for my kids. That’s what we’re doing. We want to be good at this, right? None of us want to be bad at this. And so my first thing I would say is to let’s remind ourselves, you are great at this. You were designed for this.

[00:15:55.650] – Lindsey Werner

You are doing this. You are succeeding far more than you probably even know. But your identity is not in your behavior either. Your identity is grounded in your relationship with Christ. And when He made you, He said, “This is good. I did a great job, and you are fearfully and wonderfully made.” Actually, I got geeked out about this. So I love writing psychological truths that are integrated with biblical theology. I don’t know why. I geek out there.

[00:16:30.380] – Candace Nassar

That’s one of the reasons I love you so much, because I love that, too.

[00:16:35.210] – Lindsey Werner

It’s just super fun to me. It’s like, oh, God’s word was saying this all along, and we just now, on a neuroscience or a mental health, whatever, we just figured it out. But the Bible didn’t really give us these foundational micro steps of how to do it. It gives us this vision for what could be. And so it does get confusing. Well, how am I supposed to get there? Okay, I’m supposed to feel at peace with peace that surpasses all understanding. That sounds really great. But why am I freaking out? It’s not that I don’t trust God. It’s not that I wasn’t praying, but I’m still freaking out. So these little micro skills that go alongside the word of God just blows my mind, and I get really excited about it. Well, this is one of the things that I just noticed when it comes to humility. So, I was trying to teach this class on relational leadership and how do we lead from a relational place? And one of the biggest components, well, there’s a lot of big components, but one big component is actually to have humility.

[00:17:42.120] – Lindsey Werner

You can’t lead well if you don’t have humility. And then when I think about me as a mom, if I’m in a prideful place, I think I am the bee’s knees, and I am not thinking about anybody else’s perspective, and I’m not opening my heart to realize I could be also doing things differently or what other people’s worlds are like. I’m just only invested in my own world. So having a humble heart is really, really beautiful and helpful to have, whether we’re leading in a workplace or at home or in ministry. I was trying to think about this concept, and I came across that passage in Philippians that talks about valuing and humility value others more than yourself. I looked up this word humility, and I was like, What does humility even mean? What does this even mean in the Greek? Because I like to do that. And the word means grounded to the floor, grounded to the floor. So humility is not someone who is passively, subservient to other people, unable to see their own value. No, no, no, no. A humble person, Jesus, was grounded to the floor in who he was.

[00:18:55.560] – Lindsey Werner

He knew exactly who he was. And out of that, he’s planted a big tree, grounded to the floor. And out of that, he flourished and could give of himself to other people out of this beautiful love that was not prideful, that was not of shame either. Like, I’m not good enough. It was just this beautiful love, but he was grounded to the floor. And so when I think about our identity as moms, yeah, sometimes in the moment, our identity can shift from being this grounded to the floor woman of God, that God is equipping and sustaining and sanctifying on a regular basis. Our focus gets put on to the reflection of who we are out of our kids, or out of our husband, or out of our job, or out of our cleanliness of our house. I have thought to myself, truth be told, that when my house was a mess, that people would think I was a terrible mom. How ridiculous is that?

[00:19:57.530] – Candace Nassar

A lot of people think that. I mean, that’s part of the mom pressures. I know.

[00:20:03.050] – Lindsey Werner

But as I start thinking about it, and I know so many of us feel this way, I’m like, How did we get here? How did my identity become If I don’t get my house clean, then I’m not proving my worth to other people or my value? Now, I’m not saying that not having a clean house or having a clean house is the point, but it’s the intensity behind how I need to present myself in whatever way, shape, or form that shifts our identity away from who we are in Christ. And it puts it onto these other things that really are not the main thing. They’re part of a thing, but they’re not the main thing, and it can really get us off balance.

[00:20:45.410] – Candace Nassar

That’s so good. I was thinking about one of our mentor moms who often said, and she has teenagers now, but as her kids were struggling with whatever it was, whether someone had hurt their feelings or a teacher had said something, or just something that happened that really shook them and made them feel less than or anxious or whatever, she would always stop and say, who are you?

[00:21:10.880] – Lindsey Werner

And I would say, “I am a child of God.”

[00:21:15.180] – Candace Nassar

And she would say, who made you? And they would say, “God made me.” And who loves you? “God loves you.” And that would always just reframe the situation because we get so lost. Absolutely.

[00:21:28.550] – Lindsey Werner

Because our innate  response is typically to jump in and fix that situation, which subversely, actually, confirms your identity in the behavior that we’re now discussing. So, it puts more pressure on the situation. And what you’re saying is basically counterintuitive. So your brain is telling you, you should definitely go after that, fix it. And the counterintuitive thing is saying, actually, that’s not the real issue. The real issue is, let’s start from the bottom up. Let’s start from the reminder, “No matter what happens in this conversation, God loves you no matter what, you’re beautifully and wonderfully made, and I love you no matter what.” Let’s start from there before we even go into problem solving the situation. And you know what? These kids, I have counseled children for whatever, to 13 years now. They are my favorite little people to counsel because we do not give them enough credit for how wise they are and how capable they are to solve their problems. If we would just get curious and start asking them what they think and we stop interjecting the right way, quote unquote right way or what we think is the right way.

[00:22:49.180] – Lindsey Werner

And we just start from the bottom up. And then we just say, “Well, what do you think you could do? What are you afraid of in this situation? How did that make you feel when they said that? Is that truthful about you? What do you believe?” And it all of a sudden turns from this… That moment really did suck still, and it was still hard. But now me and Kit are connecting in a really deep and beautiful way. We’re relationally connecting in a profound way. And also we are generating something really powerful together that grows their own self-confidence, and they can take that with them for life.

[00:23:33.370] – Candace Nassar

So good. And that relationship where they feel heard is, once we start establishing that, they’re going to talk to us more and more, which we know that the more that we’re communicating with them, that just opens up the way for them to process through things and help not be so anxious.

[00:23:55.000] – Lindsey Werner


[00:23:56.390] – Candace Nassar

Because we’re holding things in, then we get caught up in our own thoughts, and we ruminate, and they do the same thing. So just talking about it, getting it out there, reframing it, because we know that our identity is in Jesus Christ, and it brings great conversation to bring them to a saving faith if they’re not there, to point out God’s grace and faithfulness in the past, just all kinds of great opportunities to build their faith.

[00:24:29.070] – Lindsey Werner

So Absolutely.

[00:24:31.220] – Candace Nassar


[00:24:31.820] – Lindsey Werner


[00:24:32.830] – Candace Nassar

That’s such great information and perspective, Lindsay. And so let’s just talk a little bit about how you, as a mom, have grown over time, and what God has taught you, how you’ve maybe made some mistakes. And you’ve already said that with just some perspective in the last few days.

[00:24:52.190] – Lindsey Werner

In the last 24 hours?

[00:24:53.910] – Candace Nassar

Yeah, in the last 24 hours.

[00:24:54.680] – Lindsey Werner

Which mistake are we talking about?

[00:24:57.300] – Candace Nassar

Yeah. And I’ll share mine as well, because I’m quite a bit ahead of you. But what are some of the things that you… If you could pick one thing that you would encourage moms that you’ve learned, what would you say?

[00:25:13.360] – Lindsey Werner

About being a mom?

[00:25:14.860] – Candace Nassar

Yes. And just dealing with the anxiety and mom pressures, and staying grounded in Christ, and that thing.

[00:25:23.800] – Lindsey Werner

Yeah. That’s really good. Okay, I think I’m going to answer two things, I think. One thing I would say has been the most healthy thing that I have learned to do is to give myself compassion. I think if I could give you anything today, it would just be the more you notice that you get anxious, the better off your children are going to be. But when I notice it, I want to shame it and get mad at myself for doing it instead of going, “Thank you, God, for showing me that.” That was super helpful. I did get freaked out back there. And just acknowledging it and getting compassion towards myself because I cannot give my kids what I’ve not given myself. And so as I face my own mistakes or as I face my own anxiety, knowing anxiety is not necessarily a mistake. It’s just a reaction, emotional reactions that we’re having throughout the day. And that’s not necessarily right or wrong. It just is what it is. And so giving myself the compassion to say, “Oh, yeah, you got really mad about blank, blank, blank. And that’s okay. Take a breath. That bothered you.”

[00:26:44.680] – Lindsey Werner

Okay. So what? And now let’s move forward. And giving myself that compassion and the freedom to make mistakes. It’s so good. Because God doesn’t look at me. One of my favorite passages in the Bible is it’s His kindness that leads us to repentance. And that’s in Romans, too. It’s not God’s fierceness that leads us to repentance or to do the right thing or God’s judgment or God’s perfection. It’s his kindness. And so that’s what I try to embody with myself. And this has been a real journey for me. You can talk to a lot of my therapist friends who have really helped me along the way for the last basically 10 years. I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, I did not respect my feelings enough to be compassionate towards them at the beginning of my therapy journey.” And now I’m like, “Oh, those are actually God-given cues to help me understand myself and the world around me. They’re not bad at all. And how to have compassion towards those. So that’s, for me, one of the greatest gifts to myself that then generates this beautiful way that I can, at times when I’m not anxious, react to other people around me and give them that same compassion.

[00:27:59.160] – Lindsey Werner

So I have to practice it a lot.

[00:28:01.560] – Candace Nassar

Very good.

[00:28:03.270] – Lindsey Werner

And then the other thing I’m thinking of, and it’s a bit of a heavier topic, and I have a unique circumstance. So my son, 18 months old, was diagnosed with leukemia, so cancer, at 18 months old. So that’s horrifying. That’s not something any mom wants to hear. And it really does, though, for me, give me a lot of perspective. And he’s four now. He’s cancer-free. Thank the Lord. We’re out of treatment, and we’re in the post-aftermath of that. But I would say we were in a survival place because literally we’re trying to get our son to survive and to live. And that puts a big impact on the logistical schedule of our family. We are apart from my oldest daughter a lot because we had to be at the hospital with my son. That’s not ideal. No one wants to do that to their kid. And then also I’m seeing my son have to go through suffering that I just never, ever, ever wanted for him. I would take it in a heartbeat, but I couldn’t take it away. And so my husband and I, as we were going through this situation, the joy that I have is that I had him in those hospital rooms with me the whole time. But it was the perspective.

[00:29:32.380] – Lindsey Werner

It was the perspective that got us through that season. And I think that that perspective is what gets us through parenting pretty well together. And the perspective is God’s got it. God’s got it. And if I make the cancer or whatever the momentary situation is, the focal point of our home, then we go down a very dark path of anxiety because the focal point of our home is whatever the sad, bad thing is. And so in our case, we have a choice to make this journey right now a journey about how bad life is and how scary life is and that life is cancer. Or, we have an opportunity to help ourselves move through this suffering differently. And we acknowledge that it’s suffering. There is no day I did not acknowledge that that was suffering. But my Romans 5:5, I think it talks about suffering produces perseverance and perseverance produces character, and character produces hope. And hope does not disappoint us. Now, I had no idea what that hope would really be in terms of realities for my son. Was he going to make it or not? I had no idea what that hope was going to be.

[00:30:50.690] – Lindsey Werner

And circumstantially, we had all the hope in the world. But I will tell you this one thing that I learned. When we are facing mental health or physical health issues, And you are revving your mind on anxious thoughts like, “Is he going to make it? Is he not?” You are reducing the ability for the body to heal because the body is so busy freaking out that it’s not resting and it’s not building and growing itself. It’s so busy defending those messages that it actually breaks down the immune system. And what we’ve learned about anxiety, anxiety from a neurological perspective, and this is true of any college campus, go to a college campus at midterms and tell me, 90% of the kids are sick, right? Yeah. They’re all sick. Okay. So that’s just a case in point that anxiety actually wears down our immune system. Anxiety closes the cells of our body and makes it difficult for it to regenerate, recoup, and restore itself and actually grow or heal itself. And so it breaks itself. So when we focus on the negative, we invite more negative into our life. When we focus on whatever is true, whatever is noble, what is right, admirable, praiseworthy, as Philippians 4:9 talks about, we actually cultivate and activate this healing, whether it be physical or emotional within ourselves and those around us.

[00:32:23.300] – Lindsey Werner

And so that became such a life lesson for us. It’s like, okay, Grayson, my son, needs us to show up right now in faith. He needs us to show up that everything is going to be okay. And he’s not convinced, with me faking it. He sees through me faking it, actually. Okay, so that’s really unhelpful. I need to actually believe it for him to know that it’s going to be okay and for my daughter to know that because kids see through anxiety like no one’s business. And so we had to make sure that that was the focal point of our family as we moved through that situation. And I am profoundly grateful that my husband and I were able to do that because it really was a tough season. But my mom actually made us a scrapbook of that season. And as we look back on it, she has tears in her eyes going, “This is such a story of God’s faithfulness.” That’s what the story is. And I was like, “Mom, only a mom can give you that gift.” And so power to my mama for being an amazing mama and giving me that gift and that reflection to go, this is what you all exuded, and this is how you lived life still, even though we had something to deal with like cancer.

[00:33:40.480] – Candace Nassar

I would think that it had nothing to do with your son’s healing, that he’s doing so well because of the way you were consistently, you said, “showing up” for him, and you were able to put a positive… It wasn’t a fake positive. It was like, everything’s going to be okay. It was whatever happens, God’s got this.

[00:34:04.520] – Lindsey Werner

God knows the best way. Right. And the reality is we got to go do chemo treatment today. No one’s going to sign up for that. Yes. Hey, excitedly, sign up for that. But how are we going to show up well? So this is still a beautiful time with my son that I still get to have. And this is still a beautiful time to demonstrate God’s love to myself and to other people.

[00:34:31.640] – Candace Nassar

That’s so incredible.

[00:34:33.030] – Lindsey Werner

Yeah. So really, really cool. Those have been some… God shows you things through hard times and through good times, too. But that’s been two of the most helpful things for me as a mom is giving myself compassion to just see the realities for what they are and have compassion for whatever reaction I’m having towards those realities. I don’t need to change it. I don’t need to fix it. I just need to go, “God, yeah, I’m feeling blank right now. And help me navigate that.” But, yeah, let’s confront it with compassion. Number two is let’s keep the focal point the right focal point.

[00:35:10.370] – Candace Nassar

That’s so good.

[00:35:11.320] – Lindsey Werner

Let’s do those two things. And those have been really, really helpful for us.

[00:35:15.980] – Candace Nassar

Yeah, that’s super, super valuable. And I would just add for me, one of the big things I learned was just to apologize to my kids.

[00:35:24.240] – Lindsey Werner

So good.

[00:35:25.530] – Candace Nassar

When I overreacted or did things that I wasn’t proud of, and also even with my husband and ways I reacted to him to just acknowledge, “Okay, that was not the way God would have me react.” And I apologize. “Please forgive me. And I’m going to try to do better.” And that would just be… And I think that was such a healing thing for any time, the relationship issues. Like you said, they have their part, but I have my part. And so I was able to acknowledge that and just listen to them. And I wanted them to speak to me in a respectful way about what they were feeling. But at the same time, I needed to listen to what they were saying and acknowledge my part.

[00:36:13.620] – Lindsey Werner

Absolutely. That is so brilliant. And can I just double down on that? Because I feel like we get so wrapped up in being good enough and doing the right thing and being perfect that we get afraid to apologize or that we’re afraid that they will take advantage of our apology and not take responsibility or whatever it is. But God is the God of repairs. God is the God of repairs. And what you’ve modeled to your kids is how to connect and repair, and connect and repair, and connect and repair, which is really, really, really essential for all relationships. So that’s so, so good.

[00:36:57.440] – Candace Nassar

Yeah. It’s amazing what would happen. Like you said, you would think that it would give them an excuse or something, but usually they were just like, “Okay, Mom, I’m sorry. I acknowledge what I did, too. And then we could repair.”

[00:37:10.750] – Lindsey Werner

So yeah, very good.

[00:37:13.090] – Candace Nassar

Well, Lindsay, I think we’re going to have to wrap up Our time. It’s been such a great conversation.

[00:37:18.610] – Lindsey Werner

It’s been very good.

[00:37:20.590] – Candace Nassar

Yeah. Just love everything you shared. So good. How can our listeners get in touch with you, Lindsay?

[00:37:27.260] – Lindsey Werner

Yeah, absolutely. You can go to my website at www.relationalequipping.com, and you can see what services I have. If you’re interested in getting some marriage or parenting coaching, or if you’re… I love helping people in their workplace. You spend so much time at your workplace, and the way that you have work really impacts your home life. I’ve been in executive coaching for four years and organizational consulting, and that’s been super fun. And then I also have some classes that are going to be put up online. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks, I’ll get some classes rolling. So you can go to my website or email me at Lindsey@relationalequipping. com. Lindsey with an E. And I’d love to connect.

[00:38:17.100] – Candace Nassar

Yeah, great. We’re going to put all that in our show notes. But I encourage you guys. Lindsay is just, as you can tell, she’s really insightful and wise and has just great, great tips and information to empower you and your relationships. And so I thank you guys. And thank you so much, Lindsay. And we’ll see you back here. We know that we’re going to be hearing from you more. So thanks so much.

[00:38:44.330] – Lindsey Werner

Well, thanks so much for having me. It’s so good to be here.

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