Candace Nassar (00:00)
Well, welcome, Dana. I’m so glad to have you here. Every mom knows that nothing disrupts peace faster than a chaotic home, especially after the holidays. You’ve been so open about your journey from feeling overwhelmed to finding freedom through decluttering. So why don’t we start there and have you share your story and what was the breaking point that made you realize something had to change?
Dana K White (00:24)
Well, I was born messy. I was messy my entire life. I had the messy childhood room that drove my mom crazy. I had the messy locker in high school where everything just fell out when I would open the door. And I had the messy dorm room, the messy apartment, but I was completely shocked when I got married and I was still messy because I had always thought, It’s just not my thing right now, right? Like at some point, like when I get married, it’ll matter to me. And then obviously I’ll be able to do that. Cause I can generally.
Candace Nassar (00:56)
Mmm.
Dana K White (00:58)
do things, right? That I’m generally successful in other areas of life. And so, was not the case. And then I had kids and, I was just like, well, I’m gonna be a stay at home mom. At that point, this won’t be a struggle anymore, cause that will be my job, right? And now I know that even people who used to be naturally organized tend to struggle once they have kids. So it was even harder.
And at that point, I really had an identity crisis because it was not that I wasn’t trying. It was not that I didn’t care. I thought I was doing what other people were doing in their homes or what people were saying to do when they gave advice. And it just was not working. so really, I wanted to be a writer. And I found out what blogs were. This is back in the early days of blogging.
Candace Nassar (01:28)
Hmm.
Dana K White (01:51)
And I thought, I’ve got to have a blog because that will be a way to write that could potentially lead to the writing career I was wanting. And I felt like I needed to get my house under control first because I know myself. I throw myself into projects. And I thought this would be one more thing to take my focus away from my home. And I wanted to write to encourage moms and things.
And then I thought, but I would feel like I had to hide my house because It was such a source of shame for me and I just, that doesn’t vibe with my personality. So I thought I’m gonna get my house figured out first. And I tried and tried now with this new motivation and could not do it.
So it was actually the day before my second child went to kindergarten. I was sitting in church and I was thinking about how my life was gonna change the next day. I have three kids. I wasn’t gonna have to coordinate nap times anymore.
And I was like, this is the time to start writing and yet God had not answered my prayer to fix this thing in me that drove me bananas. And so I was praying, I was honestly crying out to God. was very frustrated and I was like, why have you not answered my prayer? It’s keeping me from doing this thing that I felt called by God to do. And God said, and I don’t say that lightly, I don’t say it often, but God said, just write about that.
And I was like, okay, that’s actually a really good idea, Okay. So I started what I thought was a temporary practice blog. I was not teaching anything to anybody, had no intention of this being the thing I was going to write about. I just thought, well, this will be a way for me to learn about blogging, the thing I wanted to do while staying focused on my home.
So I just was working on my house and recording very honestly exactly what I was doing and what I was struggling with and the thoughts that went through my head and what was working, what wasn’t working, I used a fake name. This was my deep, dark secret that I had, didn’t want anyone to ever trace this back to me, because I was gonna get my house figured out and then I was gonna start writing about things I felt qualified to write about. The joke’s on me because it’s now been.
16 years. I’m still writing about this. I use my real name. This was the thing God wanted me to write about all along. Because there, you know, I resisted teaching anything for a long time because I thought why would someone want to learn this from me? I’m never going to be able to tell you how to have a perfect house. But I saw that, first of all, I learned there were so many people like me who were completely confused and like, I think I’m doing what…
Candace Nassar (03:55)
You
Dana K White (04:20)
People say to do and this isn’t working. But God also showed me, this is what’s missing. Most of the people who write about this stuff are naturally organized.
Candace Nassar (04:30)
That’s what I was gonna say. Yeah.
Dana K White (04:32)
Right. Their brains work completely differently from the way my brain works and that so many others like me who struggle in this area, the way our brains work. And so that was the missing piece was I, you know, my role as a writer about this is not to tell you how to have a perfect house. It’s to teach you how to go from completely bewildered and confused and trying.
to, now I get it. Now I get what to do. I can do this. Yeah.
Candace Nassar (05:06)
That’s so great. So I love it because you have that natural testimony, right? And then we can learn from you because it’s genuine. How did you learn the tools though? Where did you find all of this stuff?
Dana K White (05:13)
Hmm? Hmm?
Dana K White (05:19)
I grounded out. I mean, I had read the things, right? Like I had done what people had said to do and it never actually impacted my home. And so I thought in the beginning, I was like, I’ll read stuff and then I’ll write about it and say what works and what doesn’t. What in reality happened was when I first started, I was like, I don’t know what to do, but I know that my friends who are not overwhelmed in their home, don’t have dishes covering all their kitchen counters like I always did, right?
I also knew that every time I went to clean my house, I had to start in the kitchen. It would take me hours to get the kitchen under control and then I never got to the rest of my house. And so I was like, I don’t know how they do it, but I am just gonna focus on keeping my dishes done. That’s it. That’s all I’m gonna do. And so I…
Candace Nassar (06:09)
Um.
Dana K White (06:11)
wrote about that. I worked on it and made that my sole single focus in the beginning After about seven days. I was like, Okay. All right. This is no longer overwhelming. It’s not perfect But it’s not I get it now right like I get how to do this in my unique home and so that I would add Habits that I would be like, okay. This is something else that drives me crazy I’m gonna focus on this and usually after about seven days I would
Candace Nassar (06:30)
Love it.
Dana K White (06:38)
figure out how to do that in my home, all along the way as well, I was decluttering, which I knew I needed to do. And I was just figuring it out. I was just getting in there and getting stuff out. One of the main things that happened in the beginning was I thought, I am so far gone. Like I was just like, I’m so overwhelmed that I think I’m just not even gonna worry about organizing.
I felt like that was a failure for me to go, you know what, this is how bad it is, I’m just not gonna worry about organizing, I’m just gonna declutter for now, I’ll do the organizing later. That actually changed everything for me because it showed me decluttering and organizing are not the same thing. And just focusing on decluttering meant there were no plans to make or things to figure out before I got started, it was just getting in there and getting stuff out. And immediately my house started to change.
and I saw the value of decluttering over organizing. Even if you think that you want the color-coded pantries, you have to declutter first. And the decluttering is the thing that completely changed my home, as well as the daily habits.
Candace Nassar (07:47)
Yeah, we’re going to talk about those things and I’m so excited that we’ll get to share those with our listeners. I just, I love what you’re saying that it was one habit at a time, one thing at a time. You didn’t just sit down and say, okay, I’m going to organize my house. Well, that’s, know, we would all get hung up on that, right? Even.
Dana K White (08:03)
Well, I had done that many times. I mean, I had sat down and I’d made the list of all the things I should be doing. And then I was completely overwhelmed just by the list. And if I got to any of it, you know, it was barely any of it. And I was just like, that’s too much. I can’t do this. I don’t know how people do this. Yeah.
Candace Nassar (08:18)
Okay, well, that is so good. And I think it’s probably a time to go ahead and say, you talk about how clutter isn’t just a house problem, it’s a heart problem. And so, can you unpack that a little bit?
Dana K White (08:33)
Yeah, I don’t know that I actually say that. I do say that the thing all along for me as a Christian woman, right or wrong, mostly wrong. You know, I had taken on this idea that, you know, my passion was to be a mom and to be the, you know, creator of this home for my children. You know, so like I took this on as a, it was a spiritual desire for me all along the way to have a home that glorified God. And I was trying to do that.
And I couldn’t do that. So what actually happened for me was it caused a lot of spiritual confusion to me because I was like, wait a minute. You know, people will say things like, if you had enough faith, you wouldn’t have all this clutter. I mean, like people would make statements like that or they were trying to be helpful, right? Like they honestly were coming from a heart of that. But I was like, but I am trying.
But I do have faith, so if I have all this stuff and I think I have faith, does that mean my faith is not real? Like that was the struggle and the confusion because it was never, I never had a messy house because I didn’t care. I never had a messy house because I wasn’t trusting God. I had a messy house because my natural default with the brain that God gave me is to not see limits. That’s a great thing, right? It did not serve me well in my home. So I had to.
find out the actual nitty gritty and learn, you know, things like what I call the container concept, which is containers are not meant for putting things in. They’re meant to hold. I mean, they’re meant to serve as limits. And I was like, nobody ever explained that to me before. I had to figure it out the hard way. And when I figured that out, went, and it, like changed everything. And so what God really showed me along the way was, Dana, I was never asking for you to have a perfect house. I wanted you to give me your heart.
to use however it is that I want to use it. For me, that was my writing career. For so many people that follow me, it’s that I’m gonna let people into my house even when it’s not perfect, because the truth is the clutter was not out of a lack of faith. The clutter was out of so many ideas of how I could help people.
Candace Nassar (10:44)
Yeah.
Dana K White (10:53)
When I work with people now, I see it in them. Their clutter is not out of a desire to hold on to things. They’ve brought these things in because they thought of the people they could help one day. They thought of the creative ideas, the beautiful things they could do. So it’s out of love and concern for others that all these things have come in. And yet, the fact is it was just so much stuff that I
Candace Nassar (11:06)
Mmm.
Dana K White (11:19)
there was no hope of my house ever being under control because of that. So coming in, does that answer your question at all? just, yeah, I’d like to be really clear about that because it was a spiritual struggle for me because I was like, okay, if I’ve prayed for God to help me in this area, what does it mean when I still can’t figure it out? Like.
Candace Nassar (11:26)
Yeah, I-
Candace Nassar (11:38)
That that absolutely makes sense because we don’t understand. It’s you needed, you needed the Holy Spirit to share with you what the issue really was. And that and that’s what you’re saying is that you had to you had to surrender it to God and then he began to show you. Is that what you mean?
Dana K White (11:54)
Right, and what he showed me was this was not a spiritual failing. This was not a spiritual failing that my house was a mess. It was simply that there were things I needed to learn and I needed to accept the way that my brain works, which is exactly how he made me. Right, like so all the times when I was saying, what is wrong with me because I was trying to follow advice written by people whose brains God made differently.
Candace Nassar (12:08)
Mmm.
Dana K White (12:19)
What I needed to do was say, God made me different and that’s good. He made me on purpose. Yeah. Yeah.
Candace Nassar (12:27)
You know what? I love that so much because we often, mean, this is a good time to think about Pinterest and social media and how we put these standards on ourselves based on that. And then I know for myself that when I don’t have things in order, I tend to, first of all, I’m comparing and judging, and then I’m saying, well, I can’t have anybody over until, right? And then that means what happens.
Dana K White (12:32)
Mm-hmm.
Dana K White (12:48)
Right, right.
Candace Nassar (12:51)
I don’t necessarily have people over. that’s not, know, hospitality I know is something that God has gifted me with. And so I need to be leaning into that and getting over that aspect of this perfect ideal. And I think that’s also what you’re saying is that you, God has created you with, all of these ideas and all of this, you’re, collecting things to give away and all of that. And so it’s going to sit there sometimes and that’s okay.
Dana K White (13:18)
Yeah, and the thing too to remember is that, you know, it is, my house was never a mess because I didn’t care, right? And I think that’s one of the biggest things is that for someone who is naturally organized and can’t imagine it getting to the point that it’s gotten to for so many people, the assumption is that what I need to do to help you is to explain to you why you should care or why you should want it to be different.
And I was like, but I do want it to be different. I just didn’t know how. And so the how is where I come in and what I teach is, you know, I know you care. And so, you know, my most recent book is called Jesus doesn’t care about your messy house. And it’s so funny people’s reaction to that title. Cause people are like, what do you mean? I’m like, I mean that Jesus doesn’t care about your messy house. Like he cares about your heart. He’s looking at beyond the mess.
into your heart and removing that shame of, okay, like what is grace? Does grace actually apply to this? Yes, it absolutely does. And when I understand that, it removes the shame and that removal of shame is actually what lets me move forward, right? And so I’m definitely not saying, I’m never saying that your messy house doesn’t matter.
Candace Nassar (14:31)
So good.
Dana K White (14:36)
But I’m saying that because I already know it matters to you. That’s the reason why God gave me this unique, weird career that is never at all what I would have imagined. He gave me this because I needed to write, Jesus doesn’t care about your messy house, after I wrote the guides on how to get your messy house under control. To make that clear, of course it matters.
that your house is under control to a point where you can live comfortably and do the things that you want to do. Of course, right? But it doesn’t matter spiritually because nothing I do matters, right? Like it is only what God has already done for me. But understanding what God has done for me gives me the freedom to do the things that I need to do without this…
thought or misconception or incorrect thinking that I’m doing that to get closer to God, right? Yeah, absolutely not.
Candace Nassar (15:35)
Yeah, it’s not performance based is absolutely not. And you know, I think of Mary and Martha, I can’t help but think of the story of Mary and Martha and how, you know, sometimes we can get so focused on making everything perfect that we miss spending time with Jesus or serving him in the way that we should. And that’s what Mary did, right? And sitting at his feet. So I think that what you’re saying is super valuable. And I love your talking about shame and getting rid of shame because
Absolutely. mean, most people want an orderly home or at least not chaos so they can have peace. And that shame freezes us. It freezes us and keeps us from moving forward.
Great, great discussion. So how about we talk now about some practical tips? Yeah, let’s do it. So talk about your five minute rule.
Dana K White (16:14)
Mm-hmm.
Dana K White (16:23)
Let’s do it.
Dana K White (16:27)
Yeah, so the five minute pickup is, it’s transformational. I do always have to be clear that the reason I came up with the five minutes is that it was the least amount of time I could justify. Because I would look around and I would be with my friends, you know, when it was bedtime for their kids and their houses were under control, right? And so I was like,
I see that before bed every night they have their kids pick everything up, right? And I’m like, that’s what we need to be doing. Totally obvious to me, right? The problem was my kids would be in bed and I would go, we should have done a pickup. Like it just never crossed my mind. Except in moments where I was like, we’re gonna do this tonight. Well, our house was so far gone that…
to pick up before bedtime was like, well, we need to start at four o’clock in the afternoon then, and we’ll still not be done by bedtime. Or we’re all exhausted and it’s like, let’s do a pick up, let’s pick everything up before bed. And the kids were like, what? Grandma’s coming now? I mean, like that was the thought, you So I was just like, I know I need to be doing a pick up. So.
I started doing five minutes. I was like, you know, I’m going to set the timer for five minutes. I’m going to pick things up and put them away for five minutes. The impact of five minutes was shocking to me. And the beauty of it is it is five minutes the first time I do it and it’s five minutes still. So it is not a matter of getting everything perfect and then starting to do a five minute pickup.
which is what I used to think was the only thing that made sense, right? Like it doesn’t make sense to do five minutes when five minutes is not gonna get everything done. I have got to get my house under control and then I’ll start doing five minute pickups. Well, then I was never getting my house under control.
So in the beginning, it was just five minutes of us picking things up and putting it away, truly being five minutes so that the kids learned that I meant five minutes and not actually trying to trick them into spending seven hours picking up the house and all. Like that five minute pickup from the beginning has power from day one, but in the end it becomes my goal of getting the house under control with a five minute pickup, lets me know that we’re under what I call our clutter threshold. Meaning we only have in our house what we.
our unique family with our unique personalities and our unique makeup and our unique stage of life exactly right now. If we can get the house under control in five minutes, then that means we only have in our house what we can handle. And so the five minute pickup is valuable from the beginning, even when you’re like, well, there’s still so much more to do, still do it. But the goal is that I keep decluttering.
and I keep decluttering and I keep decluttering until we are at the point where on a regular day, everybody working together, five minutes is enough to get everything picked up and put away. And that gives me a very real, I don’t know if tangible is the word, but a real goal that I’m working toward as I declutter. Yes, and it may be years down the way, you know?
Candace Nassar (19:41 )
Realistic, really.
Dana K White (19:48)
But if I’m continually decluttering and continually decluttering, I can gauge whether I have decluttered enough according to is the five minute pickup enough to get our house under control? Which then means that, yeah, my house is under control, we can do this. And then I start to feel, and five minutes isn’t enough anymore.
Well, it’s not that we failed, it’s just that we’ve brought more stuff into our house or our life situation has changed and things are a little more stressful. We need to have less stuff. And so it’s like, okay, well then we just need to declutter some more and get rid of some more stuff.
Candace Nassar (20:19)
Okay, so let’s talk about how do you declutter? And I know the container, you mentioned the container concept, so I know that’s part of it. So talk about that for a little bit.
Dana K White (20:29)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so I have a five step process that when I wrote my book Decluttering at the Speed of Life, I put the strategies I had been learning into a step by step process. And honestly, having that process has been transformational for me and for so many other people. So the first step of the process is to look for trash, okay?
There are many people who are like, I don’t have trash. Who has trash? You’ve got trash. We all do, right? Like it’s just a fact. But the beauty of that being the first step is that even if I’m confident I don’t have trash, I’m still gonna look for trash because it takes me from looking at the overall pile or closet or cabinet or drawer full of stuff where before I would open it up and go, and I would just wanna shut it and just.
shut down because I was overwhelmed. Instead I say all I have to do right now is look for trash. As I do that I am starting to look at individual items and so it’s no longer a mass of stuff. My brain is starting to actually acknowledge and see what is in this space which is going to help me through the whole process but also it’s decision free. If I at this point I am not
Candace Nassar (21:40)
I see.
Dana K White (21:44)
I’m not going, well, what would my mom say is trash? Or I need to convince myself that to throw this item away, that I’ve really agonized. No, I’m saying obvious trash. Is there anything in here that I already know is trash? it’s decision-free, I’m not using any emotional energy, and I’m making an immediate impact. I’m making actual action. I’m moving at this point.
So as I do that, I’ve put stuff straight into the trash or the recycling bin. If I already have an established recycling routine, this is not the time to start one, right? But then I’m gonna move to the next step, which is the easy stuff. Easy stuff is anything that I already know what to do with this item, right? Like it’s just in the wrong place and I’m gonna get it out and I’m gonna take it to its already established home.
Again, it’s decision-free. I’m not making any decisions at this point. I’m just identifying things I already know what to do with them and it makes an immediate visual impact. Every time I come back to this space after taking something easy to its already established home, this mess is a little bit smaller. It’s a little bit less overwhelming, right? And so then the third step is just obvious donations. I’m giving myself permission to say, is there anything in here that I immediately know can go into the donate box?
Again, I’m making progress with zero emotional energy being spent, zero decisions being made. And the going from this place was completely overwhelming, I didn’t know what to do, and now I’ve gotten out the trash, the easy stuff, and the obvious donations with no emotional energy being spent, this space is significantly better, which then I am in a very different frame of mind. I’m a different person than I was when I started. I have confidence now. I’ve seen…
An impact in this space and i’m ready for step four where I do start making some decisions but i’m still not going to be making them based on emotions I can feel those emotions, but i’m not going to make my decisions based on that. So the way I do that Is at this point the only stuff left in here is stuff that either belongs here Or I have no idea where it should go and that was what would get me stuck before I was like I can get started but
Candace Nassar (23:38)
Mm-hmm.
Dana K White (23:54)
I get down to all these little things and I’m like, have no idea where these things are supposed to go in my home and they don’t have a home. And then everybody would say, everything has a place and you know, a place for everything and everything in its place. And I was like, good for you, but I don’t know where things should go. So at that point I pick up an item and I say, if I needed this item, this earring that I just took off because it was knocking against my headphones. If I needed this earring, where would I look for it first? Okay, so I’m not.
Candace Nassar (26:56.056)
Yeah.
Dana K White (24:18)
I never ask myself, it a good earring? I never ask myself, will I ever use it? I never ask myself, does it have value? Because those are the things that let my brain spin out, right? And because I am a highly creative person, even if it is a broken earring, I see its value because it could be a craft project. It could be, you know, what if…
Candace Nassar (24:21)
Ah?
Candace Nassar (24:41)
Mm-hmm.
Dana K White (24:42)
I decide one day to get another piercing and then I would need another single earring or something. All these things go through my head. So instead I just ask, if I needed this item, where would I look for it first? That’s different than what I used to do, which is what is a good home for this or where should this go? Because where should this go? lets me spin out into looking on Pinterest. Where do people keep their earrings that are broken and that they might use? Or I would ask my grandma or my mom, where did you keep yours? And there’s all these shoulds, which is also how you end up in situations where you’re like, I got organized and now I can’t find anything.
That’s not being organized, right? Like that’s the opposite. And every time that would happen, I would be less likely to even try next time because I would think,
The last time I got organized, my house was a disaster, you know, for a long time. so I instead, where would I look for this first? With no confidence it’s going to be there at the beginning of what I assume is going to be a three hour search, tearing my house apart, looking for this earring. I know I’ve got that. Where is it? So I need a place for it. I picture myself looking for it and I go, well, what’s the first drawer that I would open? What’s the first closet I would walk to? What’s the first shelf I would look on at the beginning of this search that I assume is going to happen? And then the key is that I take it there now, right now. So I don’t make piles of things to then put away later, which feels less efficient, except that I am distractible.
Candace Nassar (26:06)
Mm.
Dana K White (29:25.197)
especially when I was developing this method, my kids were little. I had a three-year-old, a five-year-old, a seven-year-old, and life was gonna happen. And I’m more distractible than most people anyway, or I was just gonna be like, I’m done, I can’t do this anymore. And then I would be left with piles or boxes of things to put away later that would then live outside the space that I was originally decluttering. So I had made a bigger mess. And then,
that mess would morph into one big mess and I was, my house was worse off for having done this project. And so I had to come up with a way to keep myself from creating a bigger mess. That’s why I call this the no mess decluttering method. So I take it to its home right now. If I get distracted, this space is only better because I have no piles. There is less in this space than there was before. So I have successfully decluttered. I’m not done decluttering, but I have decluttered and
That means that I can stop at any time, which knowing I’m going to be able to stop at any time is usually the thing that lets me get started, right? Is that I’m not making this huge commitment of pulling everything out of a space and therefore, I’m going to have to commit the next 10 hours or three days or whatever to this. So I’m willing to get started because I know I’m not making that huge of a commitment, but every bit of progress is real.
Candace Nassar (27:28)
Mmm.
Dana K White (27:35)
unbacktrackable progress because things are going immediately to their home. Yeah, and then if I can’t answer the question, where would I look for it first? That’s when I ask my second question, which is if I needed this item, would it ever occur to me that I already had one? Because I didn’t have an answer for where I would look for it first. And so I need to be honest that the reason I didn’t have an answer for that is that I would never go looking for it, which means if I needed it, I would buy another one and that would be
Candace Nassar (27:39)
Okay.
Dana K White (28:01)
add to my clutter, which was a huge part of my clutter problem, right? I didn’t know what I had. Things were a mess. I didn’t know where things were. And so when I needed something, I didn’t even go looking. I just went out and bought another one, which meant I ended up with like multiples of all these different things, which then made my house harder to manage. just, know, but that was the endless cycle there. Yeah.
Candace Nassar (28:21)
Sure, yeah, so you asked the question, you know, if I like, if I need, where would I go look for this first? And then what was the next question?
Dana K White (28:25)
Mm-hmm.
Dana K White (28:31)
Well, if I have an answer to that, I take it there now and I’m done with that item. But if I don’t have an answer, I ask if I needed this item, would it ever occur to me that I already had one? Because I have to be honest that the reason I didn’t even have an answer for where I would look for it first is that I wouldn’t even go looking for it. And in that case, it needs to go in my donate box, which is hard, right? Because I’m seeing it in my hand right now. And so I’m like, but I…
Candace Nassar (28:34)
Right. Right.
Dana K White (28:57)
I see it, so, you know, but yeah, yeah, yeah, mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.
Candace Nassar (29:06)
That’s, that’s good. That’s, that’s what I was thinking was the next question. Was it, I mean, the next step was it needs to go on my donate box. mean, my husband and I, so I, I’m pretty organized and I can get through things. My husband wants to sit and look at and attach emotional value to every little thing. And so I’m seeing a lot of that. You’re taking that out of it. And I really like that because that’s where it gets hard is when you start to think, but, but, but, but, but, right.
Dana K White (29:09)
Mm-hmm.
Dana K White (29:12)
Yep. Yep.
Dana K White (29:26)
It is.
Dana K White (32:52.651)
And that’s why it helps so much in helping other people declutter like your husband, because I don’t have to be the one to say that, mean, maybe you be saying this to him, but that’s a broken earring. Why would you need a broken earring?
Because if somebody says that to me, I’m like, well, you don’t understand me and therefore this isn’t gonna work, because you don’t get how, instead it’s like, okay, you would look for your broken earring in the, drawer above the washing machine?
Okay. But we take it there now and we face the reality of that drawer. And we say, okay, this, you know, this drawer is full of other broken earrings or other things that you’ve thought about for, you know, craft projects in the future. All right. So what are you willing to get rid of? I don’t even have to go, the drawer is full. Like that’s the tendency, right? Especially as moms with kids, we’re like, hello, you know.
But instead I get to say, okay, well, what are you willing to get rid of to make room for this broken earring? And it is because I am not saying the broken earring is a bad thing to keep. You can have all the emotions. And so that’s where the emotions come into play, but I’m still not using them. I get to honor them. I get to honor what makes me me and how I see creative things.
Candace Nassar (30:20)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that’s a key question.
Dana K White (30:41)
but I’m not letting those things make the decisions because as long as I was letting those things make the decisions in my home, my house was unmanageable and I couldn’t be the creative person, right? Because I didn’t have the space and I didn’t have the bandwidth and I was overwhelmed by my home. So I say, okay, what am I willing to get rid of to make the space for this?
And generally I can see some, this is actually a piece of trash that somehow ended up in there. Well, that takes me back to the space I was originally decluttering because that’s where my trash is. you know what? I can donate this item that I stuck in there years ago that I’m never actually gonna use. Okay, I’m gonna put that in the donate box. So it is all very fact-based, which lets me be me, but also my house be under control. Yeah.
Candace Nassar (31:19)
Mm-hmm.
Candace Nassar (31:24)
Sure. Yeah. I love that. And then is there one more?
Dana K White (31:26)
Yeah. Yeah. So the fifth step is to embrace the realities of the space, which is basically the container concept that we briefly mentioned before. The container concept is just that space is finite. Containers are meant to serve as limits. And that’s good news because it frees me from everything having to be a value decision. Instead, I get to say what deserves space here.
Right, so the first part of this fifth step is to, at this point, everything that’s left here is like, well yeah, I would look for it here first, but it’s still too much, it’s still too full. So I’m going to, without taking everything out, put like items together. I’m gonna consolidate.
So I put the gold earrings together and I put the silver earrings together. Just doing that means that I’m touching items and acknowledge, before it was like, it’s an earring, it goes in here. But when I pick it up to go put it next to something else, often it will reveal itself as an obvious donation because I’m like, oh, I actually cannot stand these earrings. There’s a reason why I didn’t like and I stick those in the donate box. But once those things are together, I also am gonna see I’ve got seven pairs of silver hoops in exactly the same size, which naturally reveals, okay, I can get rid of four of those or five, my least favorites, right?
So I’m not saying this isn’t a good earring. I’m just saying the size of the space is the size of the space. And if I try to keep more stuff than will fit in my space, there is no hope of it ever being under control, because I’m acknowledging the realities of the physical space. And so, you know, it just naturally helps me get rid of some things. And then at that point, when I go, there’s still too much, I say, well, then I’m going to get rid of my least favorites or the least necessary, the least important until…
what I have left fits in this space. And you know, my husband and I, we did a video, and he had gotten a new mug. And so we were on vacation. He was like, I know which one I’m going to get rid of. And I was like, yeah, Like that’s a big deal, right? And so we did a video of, like getting, you know, rid of the mugs and he loves mugs. Like they all have a lot of memories attached to him and people who gave them to him and places where he got them.
And I said, well, you know, let’s get rid of your least favorites until they, what we have left fits. And he said, thank you for saying least favorites. Thank you for letting me call it a favorite. Because for the person who gets emotionally attached to our clutter, that’s me too. I used to think that the only way to get rid of something was to convince myself that I didn’t love it. To convince myself that it didn’t have any value.
Well, that’s just not how I see stuff. I see the value in things. I do have that emotional attachment. But if I am saying, the space that I have is the space that I have, so I’m just gonna get rid of my least favorite. I still get to acknowledge that I love this item, that it means something to me, that it’s valuable to me, but I get to blame the space and say, I would absolutely keep this, but it doesn’t fit.
And somehow that lets me let go of things that if I’m just saying, it good or bad, I’m going to keep it. Right. And so it works really well with other people. It works really well for me. And it works really well with children. Like it’s because I, yeah, I don’t have to be the bad guy. I don’t have to be the one who says you haven’t played with this in three years. Well, they’re looking at it and now they want to play with it. Right. So instead, you know, with my daughter,
Candace Nassar (34:37)
That’s so good. Mm, I can see that.
Candace Nassar (34:51)
Yeah.
Dana K White (34:53)
Same thing, I was like, this is the special space that I have cleared out for your stuffed animals, which is fun, right? So let’s put your favorite ones on there first. And that is a fun process to pick your favorite ones. And then once that shelf, it was like a three shelf unit, was like once that shelf was full, I was able to say, okay, well, it’s full. So the ones that didn’t make it onto the shelf, we’re gonna donate those.
to other kids and she’s already sorted out her most favorites from her less favorites. She still loves them and that somehow works. And then if it’s like, but I have to keep this monkey, right? Okay, I get to always say yes, but I’m not saying yes, we get to keep everything. I’m saying, absolutely, you love that monkey. What are you willing to get rid of in order to make the space for the monkey? I can’t do that.
Candace Nassar (35:25)
Yeah.
Dana K White (35:41)
I get to be sad with her. It is sad that there’s not enough space for everything. So we can hug, we can cry, we can be sad about this, and yet the size of the shelf is the size of the shelf. I would love it if we could keep a ball, but it’s just not a fact. You know, yeah.
Candace Nassar (35:59)
I love that because I can see often those situations devolving into just emotional wrecks, like you’re in an argument and meltdowns and all of that. And that’s just, mm-hmm.
Dana K White (436:05)
Absolutely.
Dana K White (36:09)
It turns into a power struggle. And that is the problem often when we try to help someone else declutter, right? Is that they hold on tighter. They may not even want the thing, but I’m going to hold tighter because now it’s turned into a power struggle. Yeah.
Candace Nassar (36:23)
Mm hmm. Yeah. So great. Wow. Well, these are incredible tips and I know that the container like I first when I saw your container concept, I first envisioned like these massive clear containers from Target. But that’s not really what you’re talking about. You you talk about just whatever it is that you are going to fit this in to to make those decisions. OK, if this is if I’m adding one, if I’m going to have a limited space and if I’m adding something here, then something else has to go.
Dana K White (36:48)
Yes.
Candace Nassar (36:49)
And it’s just a logical decision. So that’s really good, really, really practical. Okay, so as we wrap this up, Dana, you’ve given us so much great things to practice and think about. What would you say to the mom right now who is trying to put away everything from the holidays? There is all this new stuff and she’s completely overwhelmed. What is one small step she can make towards peace in her home?
Dana K White (36:51)
Yeah, exactly.
Dana K White (37:17)
start with the trash. I know that that sounds like, wait, what? No, I’ve got all these toys to put away and then the kids are going to have to these hard decisions. But start with those non-emotional things first. Like that is actually highly satisfying to make real progress and clear space just by getting rid of trash. Like that power of doing that is going to open up space for
Dana K White (37:41)
these things that you don’t know where to put it. Like just go with those non-emotional steps first. I often will hear from moms who say, okay, I heard you speak at a mom’s group or whatever. And I’m like, what do I do about the, if I don’t know if I’m going to have more kids, right? Like they immediately go to the hardest, most emotionally difficult decision that I personally have absolutely no bearing on that decision, right? Like that is not up to me. But I’m like, don’t start with that.
Candace Nassar (37:58)
Mm.
Dana K White (38:07)
start with the trash because if it’s trash, it needs to go. If it’s an obvious donation, you know, like if you just zero in on trash and obvious donations first, you’re going to start to feel under control in these areas and you’re going to free space up. And then with all those new things coming in, ask yourself where you would look for it first, take it there now. and whoever’s thing it is gets to decide what are we going to get rid of in order to make the space for this? And
Candace Nassar (38:34)
Yeah, just go through the process.
Dana K White (38:35)
It, go through the process, follow the process, having a process, knowing there’s a process is so helpful in those moments where I’m like, it’s too much. there’s a process. I mean, I use my own process. I talk myself through it verbally every day, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Five minute pickup. Yeah.
Candace Nassar (38:46)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. And then we can practice the five minute rule or, mean, all those different things. Five minute pickup. Yeah. So good. Well, I love that we’re talking about, we can have peace in our home without perfection. We can just make small steps. We can follow a process and that we don’t have to feel shame that God’s grace is in the middle of all of it and that he’s going to lead us through and
Dana K White (39:03)
Yeah.
Candace Nassar (39:15)
The most important thing really is our heart in the right place that we are submitted to him and surrendered to him and what is he showing us and all of those things. So I really appreciate your wisdom. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, have a great rest of your day and thank you so much for being here.
Dana K White (39:26)
Yeah. Thank you. This was fun.
Dana K White (39:34)
Thank you.
