Candace Nassar (00:00)
Abby, I am so grateful you’re here. To start with, would you introduce yourself to our listeners and just share a little bit about your family and what you do?
Abby McDonald (00:11)
Absolutely, Candace. I’m glad to be here. I am Abby McDonald. I am the mom of three. I have two teenage boys who are 17 and 14. And then I have a girl who is nine. And I live in Western Maryland with my husband of almost 20 years. Was not born here. I’m originally a South Carolina girl. I lived there for almost 30 years.
And I’m also an author and an editor for a hybrid publishing company. I am a writing coach. so yeah, during the day I spend my time reading other people’s words and helping them get those out into the world. And then in the afternoon I’m usually taking kids here and there, carpooling them one place or another to different activities and.
That’s a little bit about me in a nutshell.
Candace Nassar (01:09)
You are busy. That’s a lot. Yeah. And then to find time to write your own book is really encouraging. And we’re going to talk about how that came to be. So why don’t we just go ahead and transition into telling us, your book is called Surrendering Certainty and I, the title is so good because all of us,
Abby McDonald (01:11)
I am. I am, yeah.
Candace Nassar (01:33)
want to know for certain what the future holds. We want to know a decision if we’re going to make the right or wrong decision and we want God to tell us that. I mean how often have I know I’ve said a million times if only God would say audibly right if he would say audibly do this do that then I would do it and and you have so much wisdom into how to kind of reframe that.
Abby McDonald (01:50)
Yeah.
Candace Nassar (01:59)
And so why don’t you tell us what was happening in your life when you decided to write this book? What was the inspiration?
Abby McDonald (02:07)
Yeah, absolutely. So the inspiration for this book, Candice, was honestly conversations that I was having with other people. Actually, I’m going to go back just a couple of years. And I was corresponding back and forth with a writing friend of mine. And she said, and this was just on social media. It wasn’t in person. But she said, you know what? I think the topic of your next book
is going to be hearing God’s voice or it’s going to be about hearing God’s voice. And I thought about it for a minute and I said, you know, no, I don’t think so. And I just kind of dismissed it because it felt like such a weighty topic. It felt like it was beyond my grasp or my ability to address. And a couple of years after that conversation, I just kept hearing from women
weekly, sometimes daily, with this struggle of discerning God’s will or discerning whether something was God’s voice. And sometimes it was a coaching client, sometimes it was just a friend, a personal conversation. But what I kept hearing was, I feel like God is nudging me in this specific direction, but I’m not sure it’s Him. And I’m not sure it’s His voice or if it’s just my own desire.
And I understood that struggle because I’ve lived that and I’ve experienced that myself. And I said, you know what, there’s something here that needs to be explored further. And God is definitely nudging me, know, speaking to me, inviting me to explore this and to dig deeper. And so that’s what I did.
Candace Nassar (03:50)
And I know it was probably a very difficult decision. mean, did it take you a couple like, well, you said you went back a couple years, so it probably took that long before you finally said, Okay, I trust you, God, I’m going to walk and faith and and do this and you shared how busy you are and yet he enabled you to do it.
Abby McDonald (04:11)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the first conversation I had with that friend was shortly after my first book Shift released. And so I was still in the middle of that. And so I wasn’t really thinking about writing another book. I was just kind of like, you know what, I’m tired. You know, I’m still, I’m still getting over the, watching the first book and getting the word out about that. And so, you know, it was something I just put.
in the back of my mind, but it did terrify me a little bit just even thinking about writing a book on that. But I find that when God wants you to do something, he doesn’t leave you alone and he keeps bringing it up over and over again and he’s very patient. so, yeah, it was definitely a process, but he is a good God and
Candace Nassar (04:50)
Mmm.
Abby McDonald (05:02)
He’s gonna keep pushing us if there’s a direction he wants us to go.
Candace Nassar (05:06)
Yeah, well, and I love that because you obviously had throughout your life times of learning to trust God, right? And so you trusted Him then, but, you know, so often we go through hard times and we have no idea what the purpose is. God always has a plan and a purpose, right? And you share in your book about your moves with your family and the trusting that that took and
Abby McDonald (05:15)
Yes.
Abby McDonald (05:23)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Candace Nassar (05:33)
the hardship of adjusting to new places and that you even had postpartum depression with one of your children. And I actually experienced that as well with lots of moves and without family around. And I know some of our moms are in the middle of that as well. And without that support, it’s really, really hard. so how did that shape your faith and your growing to trust?
to take those leaps of faith with God.
Abby McDonald (06:02)
Yeah, that’s a good question, Candace. I experienced postpartum depression actually at a varying degrees with each of my three children. It was definitely the most severe, I would say, with my first child because we had just moved cross country less than a year when he was born or before he was born. And I did not know anyone. I had moved from South Carolina to Utah.
Candace Nassar (06:31)
Mm.
Abby McDonald (06:31)
which is completely different culturally. And I was lonely. I did not really know how to navigate being a mom in this new environment. And I had some connections through work and we did have a church home, but it was a very large church. It had probably close to 2000 people. And so it was very
easy to just kind of get lost and not really connect with anybody. And so that season for me, I also decided to become a stay at home mom. And so I went from working full time to staying at home with my son. And it was really a place where I had to surrender what I thought my identity was based on. And I
Candace Nassar (06:58)
Mm-hmm.
Candace Nassar (07:21)
Mm-hmm.
Abby McDonald (07:23)
had built my identity around all of these things like being a good wife and of course as a new mom you want to be a good mom you want to do everything right being a good friend you know all these different hats that we wear and god use that season to show me no your identity has to be based on me and who you are to me and
Candace Nassar (07:48)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Abby McDonald (07:51)
That involved first getting to know him on a deeper level than I ever had because we first have to get to know him before we can know who we are. And then just realizing that I cannot base my identity on a finite role. It has to be based on something that’s eternal and something that is secure and that is certain because
I’m going to fail at these other things, these other roles. At some point I’m going to falter and I’m going to make mistakes. But with God, that doesn’t waver. It doesn’t go up and down. Who I am and Him is based on Christ and His finished work. so that was really a season where I didn’t know that that was preparing me to write this book, but I can look back now and I can see it definitely was.
and it was sort of a training ground, so to speak, for things that were to come later.
Candace Nassar (08:47)
Sure.
Candace Nassar (08:53)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes sense. Because when we look to our identity to anything in the world, right, it’s we’re clinging to, I like to say, seaweed. We’re anchored to seaweed. But God is the rock and He’s never changing. And when we can learn to trust Him with every single day and decision, and that takes time. And I love how you’re talking about getting to know Him and really spend time with Him.
Abby McDonald (09:01)
Mm-hmm
Abby McDonald (09:06)
Yeah.
Candace Nassar (09:21)
And that comes from being in His Word and being in prayer deeply, as much as possible. So was that basically the time when you began to see that certainty had become a source of security?
Abby McDonald (09:35)
I don’t think that I really realized that at the time, Candace, that that was a topic that really came much later. But there’s a story that I tell about when I had my third child in the book where there was definitely a moment where I can look back and I can pinpoint, you know, yeah, that that was a moment where God was preparing me even more so to write this book.
And so I denied that I had postpartum depression with her for probably months. You know, you think you go through it with your other kids and you think, you know what, I got this. I mean, this is kind of something that I know. I’m more acclimated to being a mom. I know how to get up in the middle of the night and change diapers and do all these things. But I really was struggling.
And you kind of tell yourself, yeah, I’m just going to get up and pull up my bootstraps, so to speak. And I’m just having a bad day. This is just a bad day. It’s winter. I’m going through a difficult season right now. I’m not getting enough vitamin D, whatever.
Candace Nassar (10:37)
Mm-hmm.
Abby McDonald (10:50)
You know, and, my daughter, she was probably about seven or eight months old. And I mean, I was doing okay. I wasn’t like clinically depressed or anything, but I definitely was not myself. And I went to church. I was actually working the media booth that day and we would always have prayer before the offering. And this
woman who I knew fairly well. I didn’t know her that well, but she went up and she said, I don’t know what this is, but I believe that somebody here in this audience is suffering from depression. And I don’t remember what her exact words were, but she invited that person to come up and receive prayer in that moment.
And before I could even think about getting out of my seat, there were multiple people that got up and went to that altar, including the man who was sitting next to me in the sound booth. And so these people are going up and receiving prayer. And I’m just sitting there thinking, I feel like God wants me to go up there, but I can’t, I just can’t do it. And…
So the man who was sitting next to me came back. I’m still sitting there in my seat. And I mean, it took me several minutes and I eventually it just became this burning where I just had to get up and I went up there. There’s this wall of people between me and the lady who had given the altar call. I felt really silly standing there, you know, in front of all these people. And I just closed my eyes and I tried to.
sort of numb my brain to what’s going on around me to pray, but my mind is racing too much to pray. so after a few minutes, seemed like an eternity, she, I felt this arm reaching through the crowd to grab me and pull me through the, these people.
And she just started praying over me and she named burdens that I didn’t even know I was carrying. I mean, it was just such a God moment. I mean, I’m standing up there weeping, just, you know, just receiving this gift from God. And what I realized later after that was that, you know, I could have sat there in my seat and I could have not been obedient to
Candace Nassar (13:04)
Ugh.
Candace Nassar (13:12)
Absolutely.
Abby McDonald (13:28)
that invitation from God. And I had to surrender certainty in that moment because I didn’t know how people were going to respond or what people were going to think. mean, obviously this woman was calling people up there. but at that moment I felt like I was seen and that was just such a gift to
Candace Nassar (13:46)
Yes.
Abby McDonald (13:49)
I think is just one of the most beautiful gifts that we can receive from another believer and from God himself to be seen by God. And so, yeah, that was a marking moment for sure.
Candace Nassar (13:58)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Candace Nassar (114:03)
Gosh.
That is such a beautiful story. And I think so many moms listening can relate to that because we can get lost in the identity of motherhood, right? And just feel so unseen by others, by God, and I love how you were open to it, right? If you had missed that moment and not gone up there, that you would have missed that blessing. And so.
Abby McDonald (14:18)
Mm-hmm.
Abby McDonald (14:32)
Yeah.
Candace Nassar (14:33)
I think we have to be open and listening and aware and then responding and then he will meet us where we are. That is so great, so beautiful. thanks for sharing that. depression, it is really a time of feeling isolation. I think we, and that’s something that Satan loves to do. when we’re new mothers or even like you said, your third child.
Abby McDonald (14:42)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Candace Nassar (14:59)
I had it with my third child. didn’t have family around and my husband traveled and so I did. I got overwhelmed by my lack of support in isolation and moms have that all the time. We want to cling to control thinking that we can have control and that leads to certainty we think. So why don’t we talk a little bit about that is how how can certainty suddenly turn into control and
Abby McDonald (15:04)
Yeah.
Candace Nassar (115:25)
Why do so many Christian women, why do we second guess our decisions? That’s two questions really.
Abby McDonald (15:33)
Yeah, yeah, I think that certainty is really more of an illusion to control or an illusion of control rather than real control. I because we can’t control our lives. I mean, obviously, and I think that we know that on some level, but we still feel like we can control things to some level. you know, I mean, I can control.
whether or not I’m going to get up and get my daughter to school on time in the morning, you know, and what I’m going to make for breakfast. But there are certain things that are beyond our ability to control. And the main one I address in this book is just when we step out in obedience to God and we feel that nudge to do something and we know that it’s God.
I mean, we know that it’s him that’s asking us to do this. We, most of the time cannot control the outcome, but we cannot control how people are gonna respond or whether it’s gonna look exactly how we want it to look. But I think that we try to exercise that control or what we think is control when we just keep stalling, you know, and we keep saying, you know,
Candace Nassar (16:52)
Mmm.
Abby McDonald (16:52)
I can’t be sure, know, like God will give me an affirmation and I’ll just dismiss it. Think, well, I need something more. We become kind of like Gideon, you know, like, you know, make the fleece wet, make it dry, you know, that sort of thing. And at some point we have to act, you know, we have to move forward. And so,
Candace Nassar (17:04)
Mm-hmm.
Candace Nassar (17:19)
Well, I was going to say, yeah, well, it just you’re you’re making me think about what’s underneath that, right? What’s underneath that wanting to control and and that vacillation back and forth and not moving forward and all that. mean, it’s it’s really fear, right? It’s fear. Yeah. So let’s talk about because you address this so well in the book about what are some of the things that we fear. It’s if we can name those.
Abby McDonald (17:19)
Yeah, I’m sorry, good.
Abby McDonald (17:27)
Yeah.
Abby McDonald (17:34)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s fear. Yeah, absolutely.
Abby McDonald (17:48)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Candace Nassar (17:48)
and then talk about why we don’t need to fear those. So what are some of the things that we are afraid of that keeps us from moving forward?
Abby McDonald (17:51)
Mm-hmm.
Abby McDonald (19:35.621)
Yeah, I think that it can be so many different things, Candace. I think that we’re afraid of failure. We’re afraid that if we are obedient, then it’s not going to look the way that we think it is going to look or we think it should look. think, well, you know, I don’t have the resources or I don’t have the qualifications to do this.
We think that we might disappoint God and that, you know what, if I step out in faith and I fail, then God’s going to be disappointed. He’s not going to ask me to do anything for him again. And that’s just not how God works. know, that God is not up there with a ruler stick, you know, just waiting to beat us down if we’re not exactly how we think we need to be.
Candace Nassar (18:38)
no.
Abby McDonald (18:47)
That’s a misconception that I lived with for many years and one that I still wrestle with, but he’s such a gracious God and he wants to see us thrive. And so I think that, yeah, it’s something that we just have to remember.
Candace Nassar (18:57)
Mm-hmm.
Candace Nassar (19:03)
Yeah, those are great examples. And I also think, I think you mentioned this as well, is we just want to be comfortable. And we don’t want something to be uncomfortable. And so often, that’s what God asks us to step into is something uncomfortable, whether it’s something that He allows in our life through suffering and trials, or even when we’re stepping out in ministry and we’re stretching, you know, it’s something we’ve never done before, we don’t know how it’s going to turn out.
Abby McDonald (19:10)
Yeah.
Candace Nassar (19:30)
doesn’t feel good and it’s easier to just not do it. We think, right? We think that, okay, let’s just sit back and just keep waiting for more, more confirmation. In the meantime, we’re silently being, the anxiety is building up, right? And when we ignore God, it’s not that he’s disappointed, we’re just gonna miss the blessing. I mean, what would you say to that?
Abby McDonald (19:35)
Mm-hmm.
Abby McDonald (19:47)
Yeah.
Abby McDonald (19:53)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that’s so true, Candice. It’s that God has so much more for us than we can possibly imagine. And yeah, that doesn’t mean that we’re always gonna be comfortable. Like you brought up, I’ve been studying Romans and I love that verse in Romans five where it says that we also rejoice in our suffering because suffering produces perseverance.
Perseverance produces character and character hope. And so there’s this, you know, threefold blessing that we experience through that suffering and through these moments where things might not go the way that we anticipated. But you know what? God is still working through that and he is still molding us and informing us into the person.
that he desires for us to be, which is ultimately to look more like Jesus. But we have to get a little bit uncomfortable if we’re gonna see that, if we’re gonna see the fruit that we want to see. And sometimes it takes a while for us to see it. It takes time.
Candace Nassar (20:55)
Yeah.
Candace Nassar (21:05)
Yeah, I think for me, I love to say that control is what I reach for when I’m struggling to trust. And, you know, it’s the fear and the, I’m not trusting God that whatever he takes me through, if he’s called me to something and I say yes, it may not go the way I think it will. But it is his best for me and just trusting that. I know for like when I started MomQ five years ago,
I had no idea how this was going to evolve. It started as just a small group at my church. He showed me that I had been a teacher. He showed me I could write the curriculum to meet the vision he had given me. And it’s just been, it has been hard. It’s also been incredibly rewarding. And I think that is, that’s when we can say yes to God, whether it’s in a ministry he’s called us into or a decision.
Abby McDonald (21:49)
Good.
Candace Nassar (21:58)
Like you talk about moving cross country and feeling like that was where God was leading you, but then sometimes I know I did the same thing and it turned out to be really hard and we were thinking, did we make the right decision? There is no decision that is like, we’re going to get somewhere and everything’s going to go perfectly, right? It’s just not the way it works. But if we know God’s calling us and we can trust in His outcomes and that He will see us through.
Abby McDonald (22:16)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Candace Nassar (22:24)
then we are so rewarded. There’s so much blessing.
Abby McDonald (22:28)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Candace Nassar (22:30)
Yeah. So what does surrender actually look like in daily life?
Abby McDonald (22:38)
Yeah, surrender for me, Candace, what is waking up and saying, God, what is it that you have for me today? What is it that you want me to do today? I open my eyes to people or things that I might be missing, you know, and give me your eyes to see that. I think it’s just inviting him in and saying, you know what?
Whatever this is that I’m gonna do today, may not look like I expect it to look, but when I’m abiding in you and I’m making you a part of everything, then I know that it’s pleasing to you and that you’re gonna be glorified in it.
Candace Nassar (22:31)
Yeah, I love that there’s a Oswald Chambers quote that I have used number of times and it just talks about how if we can learn to be calm and unperplexed in the midst that that is God’s best for us. That is his goal for us and our success is how the outcomes look, but God’s success is the process, is how we respond in the process.
And I think that’s a daily surrender and just understanding that he is, like you said earlier, molding us and shaping us. And I literally pray every day for the boldness and the courage to do what he has for me that day.
Abby McDonald (23:44)
Yeah.
Abby McDonald (23:48)
I love that.
Abby McDonald (24:03)
Absolutely, yeah.
Candace Nassar (24:05)
Yeah. And so what are, let’s, one thing I love is just the promises of God. And, you know, I talked, I mentioned that quote, let’s break it down. What are some of the promises that we can cling to as we go through our daily life of trying to just make choices? Are we hearing from God? You know, we want to sit and wait to hear from his audible voice. Again, like I said earlier, what are, what are some of the promises that we do have?
Abby McDonald (24:35)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, there’s actually three truths in the book that I go through. They’re from John 10 and they’re things that Jesus says to actually the Pharisees. But he’s talking about his sheep in the passage. It’s actually referred to as the shepherding passage. And he says, my sheep hear my voice. That’s truth number one.
They will come and go and find pasture. And so in other words, we’re not intended to just stay stationary in this pasture. You know, if the pasture is our life, so to speak, we’re meant to move in this pasture that God has brought us into. And the third one is that no one will snatch them out of my hand. And that’s really the one where I find
Candace Nassar (25:17)
Mm-hmm.
Abby McDonald (25:21)
such encouragement and such reassurance because God is not waiting to throw us out of the pasture when we have a bad day or in our lowest emotional moment where, you know, we’re just not quote unquote acting Christian, so to speak. He is for us. He is not against us.
Candace Nassar (25:42)
Mm-hmm.
Abby McDonald (25:44)
And so when we can remember that and we can remember that the vast love that he has for us as his children, we can live lives with so much more freedom and confidence in our ability to move forward.
Candace Nassar (25:56)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that’s what we can be certain of, is those promises. We can’t really be certain of anything else. We can be certain that God loves us, that He has called us to saving faith through His Son, that He will never leave us or forsake us, that He will never…no one can snatch us out of His hand. I think of just the evil one and what He tries to say to us and throw us off.
Abby McDonald (26:03)
Absolutely. Yes.
Abby McDonald (26:09)
Mm-hmm.
Abby McDonald (26:13)
Yeah.
you
Candace Nassar (29:08.33)
every single day and how we can claim. I was just reading this morning in my devotional about how Jesus fought off the devil with scripture and so clinging to those scriptures and fighting off those because you talk about it in your book of that you say my sheep hear my voice is what is what Jesus says in the John chapter 10 but that
Abby McDonald (26:36)
Yeah.
Abby McDonald (26:47)
10, yeah.
Candace Nassar (26:49)
If we’re in if we know the Lord and we know his scriptures then we can recognize the voice of the evil one and know that we don’t want to walk in that way right.
Abby McDonald (26:57)
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Candace Nassar (27:03)
Abby, this has been a great conversation. And as we come to a close, I just want you to talk about what you would say to the mom who feels anxious about the future right now.
Abby McDonald (27:14)
Yeah, Candace, I would just say to that mom, you are not alone. And I have been there so many times and I’m actually fighting some anxiety right now as I have a senior who’s graduating in a few months. And so I definitely know what it’s like to be in that place. But God holds our tomorrow. He holds all of our tomorrows in His hand and He has a good plan for each of us.
And I know that that can sound cliche because it’s something that we hear so often from pastors and whatnot. But when we actually believe it and we believe it, even when things don’t go according to our plan, even when we go through hardship, it changes the way we live and the way we think. And so I would say to that mom that God is for you.
Candace Nassar (28:03)
Mm-hmm.
Abby McDonald (28:07)
that he wants to see you flourish. He is not waiting for you to mess up or just looking down, you know, taking a toll of every single mistake that you make. He wants to see you thrive. And so I hope that that encourages that mom today who’s feeling anxious.
Candace Nassar (28:29)
Yes, we can surrender certainty knowing that our God is a good God in all circumstances. finish this sentence, certainty is not what anchors us. What anchors us is blank.
Abby McDonald (28:32)
Mm-hmm.
Abby McDonald (28:36)
Absolutely.
Abby McDonald (28:47)
What anchors us is surrendering our days to God. Yeah, every day, every day. Mm-hmm, yes.
Candace Nassar (28:59)
Every day, every moment of every day. It’s a practice, right? If we can surrender each moment, then we can surrender big stuff and things that he’s called us to. Beautiful. Well, Abby, I thank you so much. Great conversation. We will link to your book in our show notes and we just wish you all the best. Thanks for, thanks for writing it and thanks for sharing your story.
Abby McDonald (29:06)
Yes.
Abby McDonald (29:21)
Thank you, Candice.
Candace Nassar (29:23)
Great having you.
